Welcome to the Fire Inside Her podcast, A safe space for

leadership, self care, and community.

I'm your host Diane Schroeder, and it is my privilege to be your guide

on the journey to authenticity City.

Hi, friend.

I hope you're having a fantastic day.

This episode is about mothers and daughters.

The reason why I wanted to talk to my mom about relationship parenting

and our relationship was because we had a really difficult relationship

growing up, and it was complicated.

I just didn't really understand.

Once I really started to do the work on myself, I realized that I wasn't the

only daughter in the world who had a challenging relationship with her mother.

The beauty of the relationship with my mom now is we get along great.

We still have our bumps.

Every once in a while, we may not see the world through the same lens, and I think

that was part of our conflict all along.

She and I are very different generations.

I think we're a couple generations separated.

She was just raised very differently.

We talk a little bit about the relationship she had with her mom,

kind of how she approached parenting, at the end of the day, what I realized

is that my mom loves her family and her children so much, and she did, and

does, the absolute best that she can, and she did the best that she could.

It was a different world in the seventies and eighties, and the

relationship with her mom really influenced how her relationship with

my dad was and how she parented.

And let's be honest, there's really no guidebook when it comes to parenting.

We're all just trying to figure it out.

I treasured this conversation with my mom because I really wish I had

the same conversation with my dad.

Unfortunately, he passed away before I was able to ask him these questions.

So without further ado, I bring to you another interview with my mom Billy

Schroeder, about mothers and daughters.

​Hi mom.

Hi Diane.

Welcome back again.

Well, thank you.

I am glad to be back.

I'm excited to have you here.

So today, because this will air right before Mother's Day, and I

just wanted to talk to you about.

Mothers and daughters and motherhood and, we celebrate moms on the second Sunday

in May, but as I've learned I think every day should be Mother's Day because we

do a lot to make the world go around.

, but first let's start with the random question of what is your

favorite flavor of bubbly water?

Oh, I guess right now, I, just recently discovered

The orange vanilla.

Orange.

Vanilla or orange cream.

Yeah.

Orange cream.

Orange vanilla.

Two new flavors.

one is bubbly.

The other is, Something else, but yes, that's my favorite next

at the moment.

Next.

And then your ultimate favorite is the Bud.

Zero.

Yes.

I think we should get started with, tell me a little bit about the relationship

that you had with your mother.

What type of mom was she?

I can tell you she was, to me, the scary grandma, cuz she was pretty, pretty,

Shut down, I guess would be the language.

I can use it now, although now that I'm older and know more

about her story, I understand why.

But what was it like for you growing up, the youngest of three girls with grandma?

I've thought about it a lot actually.

I need to go to high school first because by the time I was in high

school, I referred to my mother as the warden my best friend Barbara Ofield.

I would go to her house a lot mom was, sort of aloof.

It's like I did not have boyfriends in school.

I had friends but everybody was afraid of her.

and yet she wasn't really mean.

She was just

intimidating.

Intimidating, yes.

that's the good word.

But on the other hand, growing up until I was in sixth grade,

she was a stay-at-home mom.

This was back in the fifties and we had one car, groceries were delivered by Sam.

He had a little market and he delivered them, and so we didn't need another car.

I walked to school and my sisters did too.

And, but mom made all my clothes, our clothes.

I think that's partly why, you know, it was pretty close.

We didn't go anywhere.

Back then.

but she was not a warm person.

It was

Not very nurturing.

Not very nurturing.

And yet I always felt loved.

And my dad's mom was alive.

I didn't have any other grandparents, well my grandfather was alive until

I was in junior high, but he had been ill, and so grandma took care of him.

And I guess I grew up with that, with grandma, took care of grandpa and

then, My mother waited on my dad.

And so that's that.

And she cooked dinner.

she did all the housework and everything.

And so that was sort of the model that I learned.

That's what you knew.

did grandma ever talk about her experience as a child when she got

shipped off to the Haskell Indian School?

Yes.

and what sort of transformed things was, when my older sister, who was eight years

older than I, when she went to college, she wanted to go to Mount Holyoke,

which was very expensive for back then.

So mom went to work and she worked at the welfare department for a couple

years, and then, She had graduated from Greeley in 60, in 34 with a

teaching degree, but never taught.

. So she decided she was gonna teach school she took some courses in the summer

and then she got a job teaching seventh grade social studies and, , she really

got into history, and she knew all about New York state history and everything.

About the sixties is when she got involved with the Cherokee Nation , because

being what , great, great granddaughter of John Ross That was a big deal.

Right.

In the, in the sixties and they were starting to recognize them and so

she and her sister got going on that.

That's neat.

I wonder if the timing of that too we read now and hear

now about how awful it was.

The Indian schools that people were sent to, and we find out grandma was

sent, but her older sister was not.

And then grandma's mother.

So your grandmother had a traumatic brain injury.

We can only speculate that she was like, yes.

Go, go away.

do you know if grandma never went back home after she left?

Right.

Middletown, New York to Oklahoma.

And I believe her mother was in the hospital

and that was the first time she'd been back home

and she saw her.

Okay.

I think so.

Okay.

and she had a brother who lived there and, and I

got to meet cousins and stuff.

But prior to that, there had been, Very little contact.

Which makes sense.

Yeah.

and I ask all this, there's a reason why I ask, because I think it's

important to understand more about, you know, we can't do it in the moment.

It's hard for 12 year old.

Billy to understand that your mom is just cold and not very warm

because she's experienced a lot of trauma that she probably doesn't

even know how to talk about.

But I think when you look back at it retrospectively, you can put that together

and be like, wow, okay, I get it now.

It makes sense.

And not only did grandma have that trauma, she brought with her, she was a

single mom for quite a bit of her time.

You know, when you guys were little because grandpa was at war.

World War ii, and then when he came back, he was a different person because

of the trauma he had experienced.

So your two parents loved all three of you very much.

And it was during a time where, If you didn't really talk about all

the bad things that had happened, you just kept moving forward.

let's fast forward.

You decided that you wanted to get as far away from Middletown, New York as

possible and came out to Greeley, Colorado because your sister was here in college.

So you came out here for college and where were you at in your

college journey when you met dad?

In my senior year.

I only had one quarter of school left.

Well, I had my observation and then I had my student teaching left, and

I was gonna do that the following.

Now, when you met dad, I know you fell in love with him

pretty quickly, and you knew he was the one that you were gonna marry.

Did you anticipate that you guys would start a family so soon?

Things were a little different then.

You didn't have a lot of options.

Did not have a lot of options.

Or preventative options

or preventative options or anything else.

Okay.

So, and uh, you became a young mom.

Yes.

And then you guys kind of figured it out.

You got married and had a kid and started a career and bought a house

and all of that relatively short order.

Well, yes.

We met in.

February, we were married in August and then we moved to Denver

the following May with the baby.

And, no job.

I still had student teaching to do in order to graduate and we moved

in with his parent and within a week he was hired at Sun Strand.

Well, it's now been, well the plant in Denver's closed, but it's with Raytheon,

it's aviation parts and things like that.

And he ended up working there for 38 years and we rented a house down the

street for a year and then bought it.

and he insisted that I finish my degree.

So when Vance was two, I did my practice teaching at the local junior high, and,

then a year later I got a job at the high school, which I stayed at for 29 years.

Which was two blocks away from where you lived.

So when you moved in with grandma.

How was that different from the mother you knew and grew up with

and the family unit you had to living and meeting Grandma Kinsley?

Oh my goodness.

grandma Kinsley I called her mom.

Mm-hmm.

And she really was my second mom.

And I don't know if it was that Kansas, Midwest, whatever, but

she welcomed me the minute we met.

We met at a laundromat.

But, I'm not sure if she was just glad that I had finally reeled in her crazy

son, but it, it was all about family.

And I think that's what I had always wanted.

I decided when I was in sixth grade, I wanted to be a teacher because

that was a good job to have as a mom.

Okay.

I would have weekends off, I would have summers off.

And, that was why I wanted to be a teacher.

So I did that, and then finding the right person was the next step.

And so that happened.

She was all about family and holidays and, dinners and we did have

dinners growing up, family dinners.

But with Kinsley, it was, much more warm and, she would never

hesitate to babysit for one thing.

My mom was not a babysitter.

She, my, my sister who stayed back east, she had kids and very few times

did folks ever keep an eye on the kids.

They it just wasn't their thing.

Well, so then you start, moving along.

You're married, you're teaching now.

You're settling into life and you guys don't have any more

kids for almost a decade,

I started teaching.

Vance was two and a half and I thought, Oh, cool.

I'll get a job, then we'll have some more kids.

Well, we kept thinking we were gonna have more and the doctor kept

saying, well, you could have more.

And, then all of a sudden, 11 years later, and it's like,

we're gonna have another one.

And it sort of rocked your older brother's world, but And of course

back then you didn't find out, Whether you were having a boy or a

girl and we were hoping for a girl.

We really were.

It was a wonderful surprise.

Now, did grandma already plan on retiring before?

Like, she retired after I was born to help out.

But was that always the plan?

Was she gonna retire after the baby came to help?

Or did it just kind of happen?

I think she wanted to do it.

she turned, see you were born in 76 and she didn't retire till the following year.

I took the whole year off from school.

, A poor thing.

I made your, these cute little outfits and dragged you all over.

I was room mother to Vance.

And how different was it to have a child at 32 versus 21?

Oh my gosh.

Well, at 21.

See, I had never been around babies.

I had played dolls until I think I was in middle school.

I loved baby dolls.

And I always wanted I, my mom would talk about when we would be downtown, if

I saw a baby carriage, I would drag her across the street to look at the baby.

And, I love babies.

I still love babies.

When Vance was born, we were in Greeley all alone.

Because his mom was working down in Denver, right.

And my folks were back in New York and I had no idea what to do.

Back then it was cloth, diapers and, , hanging them out on the clothes line.

And, I was terrified.

, he was such a good sleeper, I would go in and put my hand on

him to make sure he was breathing.

I did the same thing with mine.

No shame in that whatsoever.

And so it was Big 12.

Everybody knows they don't come with manuals, so yeah.

Truthfully, I had a paperback copy of Dr.

Spock.

Yep.

We were all raised by Dr.

Spock.

And anytime I had a question, I'd look it up and, sometimes do

what he said and sometimes just

Yes.

Follow your intuition.

Okay.

So then , you have me, which I was a surprise.

And then you had Gary, which was a shock.

Total shock.

And so year and a half later.

Right?

So life got really busy, probably pretty quickly.

In a different way.

Yes.

So now you're, you know, you find the groove and now you've got Gary , and I

would say, from what I remember, I've always felt the love from you and dad too.

It was very warm, it was very, , full of love and lots of laughter.

And, I had no idea that we were ever.

Poor or struggling or you know, because you were always making things

happen, which we talk a lot about in the first episode about self-care,

and I'll put that episode number in the season notes, but I guess then it

kind of gets, I wouldn't say it got weird and I'm sure it's normal, but.

I would say probably what, fourth or fifth grade for me, things started to

change with our dynamic and it got hard,

well, I used to say it jokingly, but I really believe that boys are

much easier to raise than girls.

, just because, look, now I know hormones and just girls are different than boys.

Not just physically, but Right.

, fifth grade is a difficult year for most children.

Fifth grade with you was very challenging.

Well, it was also right after Grandpa Meyer died, so he passed away

when I was in fourth grade, and so there was a lot of lot going on there.

Vance had gone away to college and.

Then in fifth grade surprised everyone that he too was getting married and

you were gonna be a grandparent.

So there, there were a lot of changes.

Yes.

And I wonder if

those two

together, I wonder if part of that, , that's how , I responded to it too.

You know, the grieving and , the change, and I remember very clearly how cool I

thought it was that Vance was getting married because I was gonna have a sister.

Because I think I was probably around that age, fifth, sixth grade.

For me, that's all I wanted was a family too.

That is all I ever wanted, was to have a, kids be a parent, have a family.

And so I think whatever tools you and I had, we didn't really know.

We just kind of figured it out.

middle school's tough for a lot of reasons, and you always say that.

It was my fifth grade teacher, Mrs.

Tava.

Yes.

That saved my life.

I can remember distinctly with Vance Gone, you got the basement and you

would come up and I'd say, good morning.

And you'd cry and I'd go, what?

What did I do?

And I think anyone with teenagers or, even preteens

now, , It is a whole new world.

I see it with my grandsons that, they come home from school.

And if you can get two words out of 'em, it's, a good day.

I'm living it now with little man.

You know, I, when he is happy, I wanna latch onto it forever and

be like, oh my gosh, you're happy.

What's the magic secret?

And then if I say too much, then he is not happy anymore.

Just trying to figure that out with him is challenging as well.

middle school's awful anyway, and , last time I had asked you what your parenting

strategy was, and what you guys , were focused on and you didn't have one.

You just trusted that we would make good decisions.

And I also think too, and this is me, you know, looking back, that you

guys were doing the absolute best you could with what you guys had.

And you were busy working and trying to provide and a million other

things that take place on top of, for you specifically, you also did

everything a stay-at-home mom did.

So all that invisible work and worked full-time as a teacher.

English teacher

grading papers.

So that was a lot.

And I remember, I don't remember how old I was when you told me that you've always

loved me, but you didn't always like me.

And I use that line when I talk about leadership.

Oh, you have to love your people.

You have to find something you love about 'em, but you

don't always have to like them.

, and I think, for you and I, it was bumpy for a long time.

, either we were too much alike or, , there was just life.

what I've realized, and as I've gone back through, because I

save everything, I saved cards.

I saved notes that you and dad wrote the best encouraging notes ever.

Oh, ever.

Like you guys were always there, always dependable.

So I found this one.

I'm gonna read it to you because it's really funny.

, it was on my 16th birthday, and I'll post a picture of us on my 16th

birthday because we went out to Davies.

Davey Good Hughes for barbecue.

Oh my gosh, I forgot about that.

And what you wrote was quote, being a mother is as hard as being a teenager.

And I do appreciate your patience.

I'll keep working on my patience.

And I just, every letter that you gave me, you always, I'm always here for you.

I'll always love you.

I'm so proud of you, the person you've become.

that was always there and I don't think I appreciated it in

the moment because you don't.

But I'm glad that I saved everything.

And another memory that I have is, , when I decided to become a

firefighter, dad told me to lay down until the feeling went away.

And it really wasn't much of a discussion or approval because , you had hung

above my bed a sign that said, anything boys can do, girls can do better Like

that, I remember that so clearly and I wish we still had it, that

you guys were always, it was never-

you can or can't do anything.

It was do whatever you want and the sky's the limit, but I really struggled.

When I tried to get hired on the fire department, there was,

you and dad were always there.

I remember dad would ride with me to the different tests.

And then when I finally got hired in the academy, I struggled with

one of the physical agility tests.

And so every weekend I worked hard and I'd bring it to your house and I'd Raise

and lower the hose and all the things.

And when I passed it, you made me a certificate and I

still have it in my scrapbook.

Oh, that was way to go.

So you and dad always gave the best cards and I think that's

just how you guys communicated.

That was your love language to us.

And always demonstrating, you just always being there.

And I'm very grateful for that and I'm really glad I saved everything.

Oh, I am too.

The other words of wisdom that I absolutely could not

stand when I was a teenager, but I now have tattooed on my arm.

In your handwriting is this too shall pass?

And tell me- did you hear that from someone in your life or is that just

something, some words of wisdom?

I can't remember exactly where it came from and I was an English teacher, so

a lot of literature went through my brain.

But, it's part of, I guess, my philosophy.

That, and, you know, everything happens for a reason, which a lot

of people can't stand to hear, but geez I really believe that.

There's a plan and as bad as some things are, I whoop it

through it and it will pass.

Mm-hmm.

And I've always been an optimist.

your episode with introvert that really hit home.

And I think part of my MO is, always trying to make things work or

you're a people pleaser.

Everything, okay?

Keeping the peace.

If you and Gary were fighting or whatever, I'd want everything all settled

before dad got home from work, right?

I want peace.

Peace in the house, that was sort of

peace in the house.

And we always had to be quiet because my dad napped a lot.

He had, because he was always tired because he was a

fireman, a volunteer fireman along with being at work.

So when you showed up at the house, mom first thing, when

she would say, shh, be quiet, dad's sleeping, which is paid forward.

In the future because all the grandkids sleep so well at your house.

You do.

And they were babies.

It was the sleep house.

, so what after we, , got through a lot of the bumpy stuff and I grew up, you know,

that's, and I've said it before, another gift that you guys gave us, but you gave

was just the dependability . There was no, if there was a helicopter parent,

you guys were the opposite of that.

You guys always let us go do our thing.

Even if you were disappointed, even if you knew that it probably wasn't going

to go well, because I think you just always wanted us to be happy, you know?

I love that, not overthinking it approach.

but it changed.

I think I saw a lot of changes.

And when we all started having grandkids, so , the trend of parenting where

you had Vance and then you had the two of us later on in life, followed

the same way with the grandkids.

So Vance had kids pretty early, and then Gary and I caught up a little bit later,

but all of a sudden there was this big kid boom, grandkid boom in the family.

And you and dad, like I would say, I don't know who you guys were, you were

not the same people that raised us.

There was junk food in the house.

There's still junk food in the house.

to watch you guys be grandparents, it just, there was nothing like it.

It's really cool to see the bond you have with all of your

grandkids and your great grandkids.

It was such a wonderful transition Really when, I retired

in 98 and then dad retired.

They closed the plant, so we had to retire in so here we were both

retired home 24 7 and, then all of a sudden the grandkids arrived.

Well, Chantel and Amanda were in Georgia.

But , when dylan was six weeks old.

Mm-hmm.

We started full-time daycare.

It was the most wonderful thing that happened to us.

I would never have done it by myself.

I, there's a little bit of my mother in me.

Dad was the one who played with the kids , I cooked, , I sort of

kept things going in the house.

He loved doing that.

And, even as he got Sicker, it kept him going.

Absolutely.

And the boys, there will be memories that they will have forever.

we have a king size bed or a head, and they would make a cave in there

and they would put TV trays and blankets , and it was just, it was fun

because when you kids were little, like you said, I was working so.

I mean, it was in the morning, get 'em fed, get 'em off and I'd go off to school.

I'd get home from school.

I was gonna say, how did that dreaming of weekends off

and summers off turn out for you?

Well, exactly.

Being a school teacher and having children is not quite what I thought.

I thought, well, when do I get a vacation?

Well, when I retired and you kids were gone, but that was.

Looking back, I would never, I wouldn't do it any other way.

It was, that's exactly what I wanted.

I wanted a family and, to this day, that's my life, my family.

Mm-hmm.

That is true.

I, uh, I don't do cruises.

I don't have to go places other than to visit family.

what has been your favorite part of motherhood or being a mom?

Oh my goodness.

Oh, that is, that's so hard.

think seeing how you, three have turned out.

You're all wonderful, smart people and beautiful children.

I did that and you're successful and it's like, when dad was getting ready to

go into hospice and come home and die.

He, it's like he said, you've done well.

he could.

He could go in peace.

And so proud of you, , every one of you.

What has been the most challenging part of motherhood and now

that you know you're getting ready to enter your ninth decade, what would

you say is the most challenging?

And have the challenges changed over the years?

Oh, I would say money was a challenge.

but by my first year salary was $4,000 for the year, or 4,800 I think.

We were always pretty much paycheck to paycheck.

Mm-hmm.

and it was a constant challenge.

Well, I'm sure, because you guys never told us No.

No.

And see, you made sure we had everything.

We didn't know it exactly.

I

didn't know it.

So we did a good job at that.

Did a great job.

I did a good job.

It because I handled the finance.

dad worked very hard.

He made good money for the time.

Mm-hmm.

so it all worked.

I have no regrets , about that.

Nowadays, I'd look at the price of things and I'm going, oh my goodness.

But it's expensive to raise kids now too.

Um, you know, the fears I had as a parent back then, I was more terrified of

skateboards and pagers and water guns.

Oh, water guns to this day.

I hate water, guns, things like that.

And, uh, but, Nowadays, I mean, you guys walked all over and, I

just assumed that you guys were

we unpacked that a little bit, do you ever stop worrying about your kids?

Oh, absolutely not.

I

didn't think so.

and now I worry about spouses and grandkids and it's a joke.

I, whenever anybody's flying anywhere, I, I have this obsession with.

I want their flight number.

I have to track the flight.

It's not a joke.

It's lovely because you're the first person we hear from, regardless

of where we land and when.

Welcome to dc.

Welcome to Atlanta.

Welcome to San Diego.

It's our own, we have our own personal tour guide, concierge for us.

And you know, in part, I got that from your father.

. He used to do that and , he would check the weather and, oh, yes.

you know, you're gonna have a beautiful week.

Mm-hmm.

What advice would you give my listeners about the relationship

they have with their daughters, their mothers or their daughters?

As far as maintaining a relationship or kind of transitioning, cuz I will

always need you cuz you're my mom.

It's different now cuz in some ways I feel like I, I take care of you.

Not, I mean, you're very independent, but, I'm in the sandwich generation.

But what advice would you give?

We're very fortunate.

We have a great relationship and not every mother and daughter is that fortunate.

What advice would you give one way or the other?

Like you and grandma never ended up having a really great relationship, but it wasn't

terrible your mom, but you and Grandma Kinsley had an amazing relationship.

So I guess.

Is it advice?

Is it, you know, do you let it go?

Is it this too shall pass?

What advice would you give if people have difficult relationships

or challenging relationships?

in a way I think it's all of that.

It's be kind to yourself , and to your daughter.

listen and, maybe.

Don't let expectations rule a relationship or, so often we think we have plans

for our children or we don't approve of, , who they like, or who they're

running around with or whatever.

And I think it's important to have a dialogue.

I mean, it's, it's hard, especially I think with teenagers to talk , and I

really worry about young people nowadays.

Mm-hmm.

Becoming so isolated and so, Focused on screens and, yet in a way, I do see

that with some of the screen stuff it is interacting, but as far as a parent, I

think parents let fear interfere with.

A relationship, , whether it's, , you're afraid your kid's gonna get mad at you

and, you're gonna lose them that way or whatever, you can just be honest.

And, um, and that's probably true of any relationship, but, , be kind.

Cut each other some slack.

I think that's fair.

thank you for sharing that information.

It reminds me of another quote that you used to say all the time that has

stuck with me, and that's people will rise and follow your expectations.

It's so profound when you think about that, and I think, we do that, right?

Like we put certain people on pedestals or higher expectations when at the

end of the day, Just real people trying to figure their shit out.

For a long time and a lot of it is, the therapy and the work that I've

done is, I believe this in my heart.

You and dad did the absolute best you could to raise three kids with the

information, the tools, the access to things that you had that's what you did.

Once I made that shift to that perspective, for me it changed a lot.

It changed , a whole lot.

And I think to add onto your advice of being kind, I would say to that

too, you know that every parent, every child is their own person and

they're just doing the best they can with the tools that they have.

Yeah.

Good.

Is there any other words of wisdom that you would like to give an And Actually,

I think that, and you can maybe give some words of wisdom around this.

I know I worry because you're getting older, and part of it

is the fire department and what I've seen, and what I know.

And yet you're fine and you're doing fine and you're a lot more capable and

sometimes you remind me , I got this.

So is there anything that you could say to my people that, listen, my community, who

are, you know, in the sandwich generation that have older parents and they're

worried about 'em and it that fear.

Or maybe even a little bit of control of wanting to do what's best.

Is there anything you wanted to speak to that, because , you've had

a pretty great life and you probably don't want me telling you what you

need to do for the rest of your life, but I mean, you say about that.

I think it's important, , as people get older, that their family,

pay attention to 'em and , and sort of know what's going on.

Like, are they getting more forgetful or what do they need?

What do they want?

And,

I think that's different because need versus want.

Well, that's true.

That's true.

And, and you may want a lot of things.

Or need different things.

So I guess discerning that, but really, is it having a, having

those tough conversations?

I mean, and

oh, and I think that is important.

It's like I'm gonna be 80 here in another month, and I know that my

driving days , are not unlimited.

I've never been a big driver.

I don't like to drive, but, I don't go that far anyway.

But that's a big deal.

Yeah.

that will be a big deal, just giving up that independence.

Fortunately I'm not one that has to go.

it's like thinking of, when the time comes to, to sell my house.

I know.

Those , are now in my future.

for me, I think it's been important to think about those things and talk

about 'em and , it's gonna be a real problem when, not a problem

necessarily, it's like, Wanting to spend more time in Georgia.

. And yet wanting to spend time here.

I think it's important to have those conversations, even though they're

difficult about end of life decisions and the wishes that you want, and you

know, those are hard conversations to have, but we all know that we're

not getting out of this life alive.

we all know that at some point we punch our ticket.

We just don't know when that is.

And I remember at times when I would try to bring it up with you and dad,

it was really hard because I don't think dad ever wanted to talk about it.

Oh, no.

And, and it was like, it was fine.

It's gonna be fine.

And I, I remember very clearly.

The night he was in the hospital the December before he passed away and you

and I were driving home and that was the first time I had the courage to

be like, cuz I was, I didn't think he was gonna make it through the night.

Like what's the plan?

do you guys have a plan?

And for many years that weighed so heavily on me because I was too afraid to ask.

And I'm glad we had that conversation.

And I guess what I've learned, and what I would encourage you guys listening is

the same thing, is to find out what those wishes are for end of life decisions.

The time to prepare for it isn't during the emergency.

And just have those conversations, you know, what would you like, you

know, when josh and I went through and did our will and all that stuff.

We had , that same conversation like, do you wanna be buried or cremated?

Do you want a celebration of life or do you want, because that's a

gift you give to everyone else.

And fear doesn't take away the reality of what's going to happen.

Right.

it was interesting because we did not have a plan I sort of

had a plan I always have a plan.

He didn't have much say in it exactly.

He didn't have a plan for a long time.

He said he did not wanna be cremated because he'd been a fire firefighter.

He'd fought fire and he didn't want to end up in fire.

And, but he came around in his thinking on that.

And so actually he was fine.

At one point he had.

He had put a whole list on the computer of what he wanted.

And as it turned out much of what he wanted actually happened.

Yeah.

More and in fact more with the bagpipes, with , the firetrucks.

And it was pretty cool.

And so many friends from high school and his life was clearly it was wonderful.

And, but neither one of us wanted, The traditional mortuary and, yeah.

And the whole funeral par, you know, really grateful

for that, that whole scene.

And, and I think that's partly why we never wanted to have the

discussion, because what do you say?

Well, we don't want that.

so he died.

And so I looked on my phone and go, all right, cremation, I typed in cremation.

Yep.

And, so I, Allstate.

Called him up, what do you wanna do?

And piece of cake.

Yep.

And, um,

well, I think it, just imagine all that time spent worrying about.

That exactly when, just have that discussion.

So I would encourage, you know, have the discussion, know what the

requests are and you know, if it's end of life decision and , if it's

hospice, , if it's, just respecting.

, that's the least we can do for our parents is to respect their end of life

decisions after they created our life.

And even though it's hard, I think it's worth the discussion to have.

And I think that falls under obviously self-care.

I think it also helps keep a relationship because me and my brothers, we all

get along really well and I think it's important to have that communication

because if not, we'll make up our own stories and I think of what happened

when Grandma Kinsley passed away and dad and his brother didn't speak for

many years you know, a lot of it,

well, and the same thing happened when my grandmother

passed away, and even , when Grandma Meyer passed away and the four

of us, me, you and your sisters were back in Middletown going through her house.

There was a lot of stuff y'all needed to unpack, and I'm not talking about

her sweatshirts or tennis shoes.

and so it, it was really sort of a therapy session.

It was, which, it's like, nowadays, you know, it's seeing

a therapist is so, normal.

Normal.

accepted.

And I have often thought, my goodness, I probably should have started therapy in,

in college, you know, right after college.

I don't know if part of that is, you know, being an introvert.

I just dealt with things.

It's like I always would call, tell my parents things after

everything was worked out.

here's an example that I'll give and then we can wrap things up.

I remember.

Last year when we were at the lake, all of us had emotional moments at certain

times and I had asked you about it after the fact cuz you know, I too learned

to communicate better with the written word than speaking it most of the time.

And you said, I think I was triggered, but I don't really know what that means.

And the fact that you could identify that.

Something was off, something happened.

That's progress.

And for you at almost 80 years old, to be self-aware enough to understand

that and to try to wrap your brain around it, kudos to you for that., and

again, it's, you're never too late.

And that's what makes you so incredible and amazing and just this ridiculously

strong woman that, you're a badass.

You are.

thank you for being my guest again.

This was a lovely conversation.

I don't think I have any other pressing questions.

Final question would be, what are you most looking forward to?

Now that you're almost 80 and there's so many things you don't have to worry about,

what are you looking forward to now?

Living as long as I can.

staying healthy.

I'm well since my doctor of 40 some years as retired.

I can't be sick.

I, so that's off the table.

So I will take what meds I take.

Not very many I do want to spend more time in Georgia.

I, looking forward, , in a way it's sad to see my grandsons growing up so fast.

that's another change.

I mean, before long you guys are gonna be empty nesters.

Mm-hmm.

I'm very content.

, each day I'm happy I'm sleeping good.

I'm not waiting for anything.

I'm just in the moment, in the moment and I'm good with that.

I love your podcast.

, it's opened up a whole new world to me and listening to these wonderful

people with their wonderful stories.

And I thank you.

I, I think your future looks wonderfully bright.

thank you.

I have a, good role model to look up to.

Oh,

awesome.

Well, thank you.

Thanks, mom.

Love you.

Love you too.

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