Courageous Conversations & The Journey of Authentic Friendship

Welcome to the Fire Inside Her podcast, A safe space for

leadership, self-care, and community.

I'm your host Diane Schroeder, and it is my privilege to be your guide

on the journey to authenticity.

My dad told me that I would be able to count my true friends on one hand, and

I'd probably have some fingers left over, of course, with most advice that

my dad gave me growing up, I dismissed it and didn't think that was true.

Over the years, as I look back on my friendships and the true, meaningful

friendships that I have, he was right.

A quick Google search on how long do normal friendships last yielded

the average between seven and 10 years, and it makes a lot of sense.

There's no formal ceremony.

Committing friends together like there is for marriage.

Other relationships take over, and it depends on the timing of your life

and where you're at in your life.

If you have kids, if you don't have kids, if you're single

or if you're partnered up.

There's a lot of reasons friendships, wax and wane.

I was really lucky to meet one of my very best friends when

we were just 12 years old.

We had a chance encounter in sixth grade, and then she

went to another middle school.

We reconnected in high school and have put a lot of work into our relationship

ever since We've been there for each other through highs and lows and everywhere

in between, and like all relationships, we've had some bumpy patches.

There was a period of time where we didn't speak for a couple years and that was

really tough, but the value that my next guest brings to my life is incredible.

She has been there, like I said, through thick and thin and everything.

I go to her for advice on just about everything, and she

always tells me like it is.

Victoria is a 46 year old Latina from Denver.

She's married for 23 years, has three beautiful children,

and was raised by strong women.

She's college educated and is a probation officer for over 20 years now.

She's dedicated to building an inclusive society where all individuals are

treated with respect and dignity.

She values family, authenticity and equality, and I can't wait to introduce

you to my best friend, Victoria.

And I call her Vicky.

So I'm going to try really hard to stick with Victoria, but if I accidentally slip.

I apologize ahead of time.

I'm really curious to know what's the last book that you read

or are currently listening to?

I am in the process of, um, finishing the trauma stewardship.

It is by Laura van Dernoot Lipsky and it's really an everyday guide for

people to acknowledge that self-care is important and to understand that if

you're working in the front lines of humanship that you have an opportunity

to, um, take some time to acknowledge that that has impacted your life.

And then, If it's impacted it in a negative way, being able to acknowledge

that and then trying to find new ways to kind of cope and deal with that.

I at your recommendation last week, downloaded the book

and started listening to it.

And my goodness, it hit all the spots.

And I find with books like that I have to pause and take a break

and then listen to brain candy or something that's not quite as heavy.

Tell everyone a little bit about yourself and why learning about trauma and healing

trauma as part of self care, how that's working for you and why it's important.

I am a, well, I was a probation officer for over 20 years.

And my expertise was in juvenile probation.

I have since transitioned, um, into an education specialist with

the division of Probation services through the state of Colorado.

And so what I do is I train probation officers on how to be probation officers.

And one of the things that I've noticed that.

In my two years of transitioning over to this new spot is that I

didn't realize how sick I really was.

Um, and after 20 years of listening to people's lives at their worst, um,

you know, the decisions that they've made and the impact it's had on them.

As a probation officer, I really was invested in my juveniles.

And so I would give everything I had to them.

Um, I'm very passionate about, you know, community and just trying to make

sure that people get a fair shot and that they're seen as human beings, not

by the choices that they made or the behaviors that they displayed, but

really by who they are as characters.

Um, and so with that comes a lot of trauma and you hear a lot of crap

and you hear a lot of sadness and, insecurities and vulnerability and how

marginalized communities are treated and maybe don't always have the fair shot

that, that they should as, as humans.

And so that wears on you as a provider, as somebody who supports, those people.

And so I have a wonderful colleague who has been preaching self-care in

probation for over 25 years and is just now starting to get traction,

Mm-hmm.

in that realm.

And we had had a conversation about, um, the trauma that I was feeling and

how letting go of crisis management and dealing with that day-to-day

trauma that I was seeing for over 20 years, how much it had impacted me,

not only professionally but personally.

And so she recommended this book to, to try to help me kind of focus on that.

And it's hit home, professionally, but it's hit a lot of buttons

for me personally, as well.

I'm sure.

We talked about it last week, and the story you talk about in the

book where she's standing at this beautiful cliff and everyone's like,

oh my gosh, this is so gorgeous.

And she's like, I wonder how many people have fallen off this cliff.

I wonder how many people have intentionally jumped off this cliff?

Do they have a level one trauma center nearby?

Do they.

I hadn't heard the book read anything about the book, but just the description

of standing on the beautiful cliff, I thought the exact same thing, and I know

as I've been doing a lot of trauma work myself, how much that does impact a lot

of our personal lives, and I wanna hear how it's impacted your personal life.

Kind of more along the lines of parenting.

How does working with juveniles and probation and detention, you know, help

impact how you've raised your children?

And just as a side note, I have always admired your parenting and how you parent,

and how you've raised three incredible children, and I was a little late to

becoming a mom, but I, I just, I just think it's really like, You mom and parent

so well, that when it took me back, when you're like, oh, trauma's impacted that?

And maybe it's because we're both so affected by trauma

that I think it's great.

I I understand the trauma-informed decisions that you make for your kiddos.

Yeah.

Well, I'll just start off by saying it made me a little crazy.

Um, it made me, um, Over vigilant, I think, about things.

I remember, um, several stories.

One being Gwen, my oldest, who's now 22 years old.

When he was in sixth grade, he was getting ready to go to outdoor ed.

Um, and I went, you know, just like had a parent meeting and they took us all down

and we're sitting in this big auditorium with like, you know, 600 families.

And they were asking for parent volunteers.

And so right away in my mind I start thinking about like, oh, so you're

asking, you know, how many people to volunteer in this open forum?

What, what does that background check look like?

Are you asking people that they can come, like, are you gonna accept misdemeanors?

Are you gonna accept felonies?

Are you gonna, you know, are you just weeding out sex offenders?

Like what are we doing as far as our parent volunteers?

. And I remember going and asking, um, the teacher that was running the

meeting afterwards and being like, oh, so are you gonna do background

checks on all the people who volunteer?

And she was like, oh, I'm sure.

And I'm like, well, are you doing national background checks?

Are you doing state, are you doing, you know, just a sex offender database?

Are you running NCS ics or C C I C?

Like, what are we doing?

And she had this blank look on her face, like, uh, I don't

really, I don't really know.

I'll have to get back to you.

Are you asking for you?

And I was like, no, I'm asking because I'm gonna give you my son who's 11.

You're telling me you're putting him in the back woods for three days.

I don't have any contact with him.

He can't talk to me if he needs me and you're gonna put him with people

who volunteer for this position.

Like, I wanna know who you're letting come through the gates.

And, uh, we got in the car afterwards and my oldest, he, he tells me,

he said, mom, if you don't get the results that you want or the questions

answered, does that mean I can't go?

And I was like, I don't know, Isaiah will have to see.

And then I went home and I told my husband, who is not in the field,

um, he is a pipe fitter by trade.

And he was like, Vic, you're being crazy.

he's 11.

He's not the only kid up there.

Um, you know, and he's definitely old enough to report and to self protect.

And so he went and it was the worst three and a half days at

that time, um, sitting on the edge.

But he was fine.

And, I will tell you that the teacher never got back to me on background checks.

So to this day, I have no idea, but I let him go anyways.

I, I appreciate that.

And I, I think about that, you know, next year little man's gonna be going

to outdoor ed and it's the same thing, like I always have the absolute worst

case scenario running through my mind.

I was super crazy when he was a baby.

I wouldn't let anyone drive him.

It was only his dad and I that would let him go in a car with

anyone because I was so terrified.

And it's, I think this wanting to control because of everything that we've

seen and you know, through a different lens, the trauma I've been exposed

to my entire career is, is different.

And yet it's still similar cuz trauma is trauma and it impacts us.

I'm curious to understand what got you into the probation field.

Like why, what in your life, what events happened to make you say, you

know what, I wanna be in probation.

So I grew up in a neighborhood that was, um, predominantly

Latino and poverty stricken.

We grew up in the same neighborhood.

Just for everyone listening,

Yeah, that's how, how we know each other.

We're, we're, we're from the same hood.

Um, yeah.

So, um, I grew up, my mom was a single mom and I was raised with my grandparents.

So my grandparents were, were really like, and they, um, I.

Didn't read or write, they weren't educated people.

And I think there wasn't a lot of opportunity in our neighborhoods.

So there was this idea of like, you were gonna graduate high school, hopefully.

Um, and then you would go in and work into a trade of, of some sort.

Because the idea of college or education just really wasn't something that was,

was, I don't know, talked about or even seen as an opportunity, for me.

So coming from an uneducated family, When I was 13, my mom married

a man who ended up adopting me.

Um, and this man really introduced me to a whole different, uh, world of privilege.

He was an educated man, he's an electrical engineer.

Um, he came from educated people.

He had done really well for himself in his career and passed on a lot of

privilege to me at a really early age and started thinking, like giving me

this idea that I, I could go and be more than working, uh, at a nursing

home or, you know, waiting tables or being a secretary or, or whatever.

So I went to college, um, and while I was in college my freshman year I

did a volunteer program at a localized middle school in Fort Collins.

And the counselor wanted me to work with some youth that were at risk, of

dropping out and having, you know, um, a lot of behavior problems and, and just

really struggling in the education scene.

And so she wanted me to go and, and start a program with them where we

would volunteer in the community.

Twice a week I would go into the school and we would go i nto a nursing home

and volunteer with an Alzheimer's unit.

There were about 15 kids.

They were all, kids of color and they all came from similar

neighborhoods that I grew up in.

So I felt very connected to them and could kind of speak the lingo, if you

will, of like what they were feeling and how they were going through stuff.

By dealing with that partnership and having to go twice a week to, the

Alzheimer's unit with this group, it really filled my cup and it really made

me feel like, you know, there are so many opportunities out there that these

kids just don't know anything about because they haven't had exposure,

they haven't had an opportunity to see beyond the neighborhood or

beyond, their current situation.

That's really kind of what started fueling my fire for probation was just

understanding that I wanted to do more.

I wanted to be able to give back to the community that I came from.

I wanted to be able to pass on the ideas of opportunity that you're not

stuck in a block, that is surrounded by the same kind of cyclical situations.

That there was more out there.

And so that was really my hope was to be able to give back to, to kind of

the community that I was raised in.

Focus on the fact that not everyone gets a fair shot and not all of the

circumstances are aligned for, for people to have a lot of privilege.

That's, that's really powerful.

And I think back to I haven't really talked about how I was

raised and where I was raised.

Um, and to backtrack to, sixth grade and 19, I don't know, 80 something.

I first met you when I thought you stole my boyfriend.

It was in sixth grade

I did not.

For everyone out there, I did not steal her boyfriend.

and I remember obviously sixth grade stinks.

It's horrible.

We were raised in the same neighborhood, but I spent the first

four years of my, um, elementary school in a Catholic school.

So I was in a different school.

And when I transferred to the public school that fed into our middle

school, it was really eye-opening to me and I was super awkward.

I, you know, I was teased and bullied a lot.

And, when we got into sixth grade, it was still really awkward, but I

was like, oh, it's a fresh start.

You know, it's a new start.

And I remember you had these long braids and like tall and

long legs and I'm like, great.

And this is how it starts.

She steals my boyfriend

But then, you know, you went to, after your dad adopted you, you

moved and got out of the hood and went to a different middle school.

And then we reconnected in high school.

And I think, you know, what was so impactful for me is I didn't realize

what a rough neighborhood it was for all the reasons you just said.

It's just what I knew.

I knew that for me, I grew up in a very diverse neighborhood.

What I found was it was the Latina community, Hispanic community

that took me in and adopted me.

Like I, you know, my parents were blue collar, they worked all the

time and I was pretty lonely and left out and like I said, picked on.

It wasn't until really you and your family, and you know, I can think of

like Renee's family and Lena's family that really took me in and made me

feel what it was like to feel family.

The big get togethers and the incredible food and like coming from a small

family like that changed my life and really gave me a foundational goal of

what I wanted my family to look like.

And just that embracing of difference.

And when you talk about blue collar and trade, so many people that we

graduated with became firefighters and police officers and you know, or

work for the unions or in a trade like Joe did because that's all we knew.

And you know, I was accepted to go to college far away.

And then when my grandma got really sick, I stayed back

cuz I just couldn't leave her.

And in some ways that was a really great gift.

Maybe the last gift she gave me because there is no way I was prepared to go

away to a big college regardless of how smart I thought I was or what I knew,

cuz I just didn't have those skills.

I appreciate how it impacted what you chose to do.

Cuz I think it did the same for me.

And really one of the, when we talk about privilege, cause I know that can

be a dicey, topic, one of the first times I remember us being different

and viewed different from the outside world was our senior year in high

school when we went to Cherry Creek Mall, which is a pretty bougie mall,

to go shopping for prom dresses and Victoria had this really cool car.

We would take the tea tops off and we would blast Depeche mode cuz

that's what we, you know how we were.

And we go down to Cherry Creek and I'm like, oh my gosh, I've

never been to Cherry Creek Mall.

And there we're in this store and it was like a pretty woman moment.

This woman comes up to us and she starts talking to me like,

what are you looking for?

I'm like, I ain't looking for anything.

It's, you know, my friend is, and she looks at you and was like, Hmm,

there's probably nothing here for you.

And I was just, was shocked by it.

It, it rocked me to my core.

And I'll never forget that moment 30 years ago at how Wow.

She had no idea.

And it was truly just based off our skin.

Yeah.

And unfortunately, you know, we have stories like that over and over again

throughout our life based on the way that we look or how we show up or being

a female or the color of our skin or being chubby or too skinny or whatever.

Right?

And you talk a little bit about like leaving the neighborhood.

That was a really, really awful transition for me.

I went into, a neighborhood after my dad married my mom and I was adopted.

We moved outta my grandmother's house.

I was 14 at that time, and that was, you know, you're 14,

everything is, is terrible at 14.

Like, you know, I mean.

And so now you moved me out of the only house that I knew, the only

neighborhood that I'd ever known.

The people, my friends, you know, when you talk about community in

a, in a Hispanic community, yeah.

Everyone is part, everyone ha is grandmas and, you know,

tios and uncles and, you know.

It's an embracing neighborhood.

And when I moved, I went to a different neighborhood that that wasn't the case.

Um, there were predominantly white families.

You know, upper class.

There was money they had.

I, I remember moving in, and we lived like three houses down from the community

pool and Everyone got a key and you got like a little photo ID card or whatever,

and that you would go in and if you lived in the neighborhood, you could have

access to the, to the neighborhood pool.

And I remember my mom and I would go every summer and there were

women there that didn't work, which was something that was new for me.

Right?

My mom worked three jobs when I was growing up.

There was women there that were there with our kids during the day, and

my mom and I would be at the pool and they would go make the lifeguard

check our IDs to make sure that we belonged, um, at the pool because

we didn't look like everybody else.

I will tell you, to this day, I've never been back to that pool and

it's been, you know, 32 years.

It was a, it was a really difficult transition for me.

Um, and at the time all I wanted to do was go back to the neighborhood.

All I wanted to do was go back to be with my grandma and lived in

the same house that I grew up in.

Now looking back, my dad actually was the one that changed my perspective

and my life, and he was the one that, like I said, instilled privilege

that I didn't appreciate at the time.

Um, but man didn't change the course of my life.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Well, and you choosing to take that privilege and your experiences

and give back to the community because you were a probation officer

in the county that we grew up in.

We grew up in an unincorporated, a county.

So even though we had like a Denver zip code, it was not Denver.

It was.

Unincorporated.

It was lower socioeconomic.

And you know, even my mom still lives in the hood that we grew up in.

And when I go visit it is, it's home.

It's so many foundational memories in my life.

But what I see now is very different.

I see the gas prices are like somewhere times a dollar higher.

I see that it takes forever for law enforcement to serve the community.

the school districts really changed, you know, our high

school doesn't even exist anymore.

Our middle school was torn down for houses.

But you decided to give back, so you never lost sight of the value

of having those opportunities.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that was like a driving force for me, right?

Is, is not only to work with the youth that reminded me of ourselves, but

to go back to the community that we grew up in, um, and to be able to say

like, yeah, I'm, I'm coming back and I'm going to try to pass some wisdom

and some opportunities your way.

Mm-hmm.

When you finally got out of the probation part of it and into the training,

that obviously that's influenced how you train and the passion behind it.

I remember when you were going through the interview process and

just feeling so inspired when you would practice with me like, man, you

should be running the world right now.

Your voice and your message, the passion behind it is so important.

what I admire most, and maybe it's different from your perspective,

but my perspective is you've always remained true to who you are.

And as opposite as we are from the outside, as far as like you're always put

together and you always have makeup on.

And I'm always envious of that because most of the time I roll outta

bed and if I'm lucky, if I shower.

But you've always just been true to who you are and you've known that

from, you know, for as long as I've known you, there's just been this

strong presence of who you are.

And I just really respect and value that.

And I guess my question is how do you, how do you maintain that?

How, how do you work through all that and always show up just knowing who you are?

It's a process, right?

I mean, I, I'd be lying to you if I told you that I didn't have imposter syndrome.

Um, where I stand and what I do.

Back in the day when I started probation, I was one of the

only brown people in the room.

One of the only that came from uneducated people, um, and didn't

come from, you know, didn't start with privilege in their life.

And so it was hard for me to try to find this balance of like fitting in and

wanting to be somebody who looks the same and talks the same and is treated the same

as opposed to somebody who maybe adds to.

I think that's how I've, I've come to know it now in my forties of

like, no, I, I don't belong in the culture, I add to the culture.

I think by embracing this, that yes I do to look different, right?

I show up and I have hair and eyelashes and eyeliner and makeup and hoop earrings,

and if they let me train in my Jordans, I would totally be training in my Jordans.

Um, evidently it's frowned upon, so I don't do that.

But, I try really hard to, to be authentic and to true to who I am.

Um, when I was interviewing for this job, I had a colleague that was

like, oh, are you gonna tone it down when you show up to all of the chief

probation officers in the state?

And I was like what does that mean?

Tone it down.

And she's like, where are you gonna let go of the, the eyelashes and the

eyeliner and, and the hoop earrings?

And I was like, yeah, no, because I don't wanna do that every day.

I find strength in my eyelashes and hoop earrings,

Absolutely.

It's part of who you are and I can't, you know, in all the years we've

known each other, I think I've seen you without makeup maybe three times.

That's it.

And, and you've taught me . So I remember it was a couple years ago, I

was like, I feel like I need to learn how to put the fake eyelashes on.

So you're like, let's go.

And we went over and we bought the eyelashes and

Yep.

me how to do it, and I've.

Successfully done it a few different times, um, since then.

And I just, I mean that, I guess that's the best thing is

you're authentic to who you are.

And I've always appreciated that.

And you know, even through our relationship and our friendship

when we had those few years where we didn't speak, it was really hard.

And I think we were at a point in our lives where it was what we say.

It was too much.

Like we just, we needed that break.

And what I realized was how much I missed you and thought about you all the

time, and like, I need Vick's wisdom.

I need, I need her guidance.

And I need, because when I see you being authentic, it empowers me to be more of

myself and you remind me of who I am.

And I just think that's really important when we talk about community and you

know who you have at your table and who you spend your most, the most of your

time with, because I haven't always made the greatest decisions and , you

know, we, we know why looking back retrospectively, but you have always

been the friend that's like, offers the wise advice and never made me feel

judged for the decisions I was going.

Even if you were shaking your head, I mean like, oh man, this is not gonna end well.

You you are always there to have my back.

And I think giving that safe space just has allowed me to grow, to become more

authentic and really embrace who I am.

and I'm very grateful for that.

Yeah.

Well, me too.

All right.

It's a reciprocal and it's who do we let into our world.

And who do we authentically share with?

Right.

And um, you know, I, I always joke that I try to be the friend

that's the one that could tell you, like, girl, you can't wear that.

I love you, but no

uh,

and I hope you'd be the friend for me.

Right.

That's like girl.

Mm-hmm.

When we talk about authenticity, like that's, I wanna be that,

that person to you and I want you to be that person to me.

Um, cuz I think everyone is.

We have this society kind of norm, where it's like, oh, I'm gonna tell you what

you wanna hear, or I'm gonna, I'm gonna say things that I don't actually believe

because that's what's socially acceptable.

And, um, I try really hard to live my life in a brave space, not a safe space, right?

Because when we're safe, things don't always change the way we need it to,

or, We don't always get the feedback that we need in order to grow.

And so my hope is, is that, um, by living in a brave space, I have an opportunity

to grow and to move this needle.

Maybe that's stuck in the middle, right?

And we kind of push it over to the other side, whatever,

whatever situation we're in.

I, I admire that and I see that in you, and I see that in how you live your

life, the choices that you make, the work that you do, how you raise your children

the way that we're friends, um, you know, our friendship is very much based on that,

on courageous conversations and brave conversations and maybe not always, you

know, sunshine and unicorns and rainbows.

We've had some pretty hard conversations and we've been, you know, we've

always been there for each other.

I think back to when Your mom was diagnosed with breast cancer.

I'll never forget where I was.

And she had her surgery and we were there in the waiting room.

And then, you know, a couple years later when my dad is having quadruple bypass,

there you are in the waiting room.

It's, it's not just about being the friend for the easy stuff . It's the friends you

know that are there for all the things.

the ride or die friendship.

And you can say that about people like, oh, I'm a ride or die friend,

but your actions match up with that.

And I think it's really important that, you know, you have those people

in your life and you don't need many.

I mean, just a couple.

Quality over quantity for sure.

I've been reflecting a lot.

I talked to a friend of mine that I've made in the last seven years,

but there was a time in my life where I didn't make any new friends.

For a couple decades, I was really, like, I had my OG friend group that

I've known, you know, since I was a kid.

And then I have friends now that I've met as an adult.

There's a really awkward phase in my life where I just, I didn't connect

with friends or women, you know, I think partly cuz of my job and just

other things going on in my life, but I just, it's always nice to make sure you

have those people that you can rely on.

I look back at our friendship and I can tell you that

like all of those big life moments, We've been there for each other.

and the good and the bad.

You know, I can, I, I can go back to, to high school when you got your license.

And you got your blazer.

Um, or the first time that, that we got arrested

I bet Well, you got arrested.

I didn't.

um.

Yeah, you left me there.

I remember

That was, so we're back in our senior year in high school, we

had a thing where, the senior girls, woke the senior boys up and we

were gonna take them to breakfast.

So here we are cruising around, um, you know, midnight and driving around

all the neighborhoods and we were really not, inconspicuous at all cuz

there was a train of like 10 cars.

Well, the cops catch onto us and the car you're in gets pulled over.

Well, I follow right behind him, pulling behind the cop car, and the people in my

car are like, what the hell are you doing?

Go, go, go.

So we end up driving into this random driveway, turn the lights

off, and just laid on the floorboard until I thought we were ready.

So I do always feel bad about that.

Yeah, and I think everyone should know too, is that I had

lied to my mother who is like five foot nothing and fierce, right?

I mean, my mom is like, you wanna talk about a dramatic Hispanic mother?

Um, I was never allowed to do anything.

I could never go anywhere.

I could never sleep at people's houses, you know, because she just was, you

know, the earth was always falling.

So we had lied to my mom,

I know.

and it was like the first time I could spend the night at somebody's house.

And then we weren't even there.

We had snuck out, it was like two o'clock in the morning and yeah, I get

pulled over in this car and the cop was not happy with us, because they

have better things to do than chase a bunch of 17 year old girls around.

And, uh, yeah, I ended up having to sit on the curb and they called

my mom and I got a curfew ticket and I had to tell her that I lied.

It was, it was a lot.

Yeah.

That is a lot.

Yeah.

We've, um, , we definitely have been through, we've been

through this stuff together.

There's without a doubt.

So how do you, now that you've transitioned into this job and you're

healing your trauma as a form of self-care, what other things do you do to

fill your cup and take care of yourself?

Well I'd be lying to you if I told you I was good at it.

I'm not.

Right?

I think that's why , I read this trauma stewardship book to begin with,

is to just try to give me some ideas on how can I see things differently.

These last two years have been an adjustment for me.

I left , Working the, the mainstay of, of probation on a daily basis.

And I went into a, a different job, right, where there's not a lot of

crisis management going on, which is good, but then it's also like this

weird identity shift for me of like, I'm not a probation officer anymore.

I am teaching people.

So that's been a transition.

And then, you know, I'm in, I'm in this weird phase of parenting now where

I'm empty nesting .You know, so I have a 22 year old, I have a 19 year old,

and then I have my daughter who is getting ready to be 16 in two weeks.

Like all of the things that I identified with, they are changing.

Things look different for me.

And so the last two years has have been really hard to kind of find a

new space of, of where do I belong?

My kids don't need me the way that they did before.

I'm still a taxi service for my 15 year old, there's

still that piece of it, right?

But.

The emotional support, things just look differently when you have adult children.

And so there's that.

So really it's just trying to find things that I like to spend my time with.

You talked about not having friends for a certain period of time.

Like that was really my life.

My life was about my kids, my family and, and my job.

And so I'm just starting to explore some different things now.

I'm thinking about joining Orange Theory, um, that's up the street.

And can I dedicate two or three times a week to really

focus on myself and my health?

I'd like to take a, a flower arrangement class.

I love flowers.

They make me really happy and I love the way that they look

when they're put together.

I'm sure there's a rhyme or reason to that.

Can I learn how to do that for myself?

So just trying to find different activities and, and things that I like

to do, that fills my cup and, you know, gets me thinking in a different way.

What does my life look like the next 25 years as opposed to what it

looked like the first in my marriage.

Is it scary?

I, and I, I ask that genuinely because for me it's like, man, I'm 10 year

old, so I'm not quite the empty nester.

And while I've gone through some pretty big changes in my life, I feel like

I'm always going through big changes in my life, it's still different.

I'm on the cusp of maybe trying to figure out what does the next

chapter of my life look like.

And so I'm, I'm curious to hear how.

Feel like in your core and your body.

It's terrifying, right?

And, um, it's like this really weird mix of feelings.

There's lots of sadness for me, um, closing a chapter and, you know,

my kids leaving home and doing their own lives and not needing

me the way that they did before.

There's a lot of reminiscing that I do that I wish that I would have

taken the time to appreciate some moments back when they were little.

You know, like instead of being overwhelmed by, there's more water on the

floor after I give them a bath than there is in the tub kind of thing, and taking a

moment to be like, this isn't gonna last forever and there's gonna be a day where

I'm not gonna have to clean up the floor in the bathroom and listen to my boys have

a wonderful time in, in the tub together.

You know?

So there's a lot of, of, I don't wanna say regret because that's such a huge word,

but like this missed opportunities that I think when I was doing crisis management

with my kids and having three kids under the age of six at the same time, and

trying to just keep everyone fed and alive, there wasn't a lot of time to sit

back and be like, oh, I'm gonna miss this.

You know?

Um, I miss it.

And I wish I would've had an opportunity to, instead of being like, damn, I

have to read a book to every single one of 'em before they go to bed.

Sitting there and being like, I get to read a book to them because there

will be a day where that's gone.

Then on the flip side, there's this sense of accomplishment.

Right?

And proudness, like I've, I have three wonderful children who have

really shown me that they are what the universe intended them to be.

they're good people, they're caring, they're loving, and that

their dad and I did a good job.

we're proud of, of the humans that we raised, and the way that they're

gonna start their journey to contribute back to their own community, um,

makes me really happy and proud.

So it's, it's a weird space.

Yeah.

Well, And we're young.

You know, we're, we're so young.

I think, you know, back

Well, we're middle-aged.

I don't know if I'd say we're

Well, I mean, I think we're young, middle age

Okay.

You keep telling yourself that.

I think previously when I think of people in their mid

forties, I was like, oh man, they're, you know, one foot in the grave.

What are ? How are they gonna live?

And now I, I'm like, I feel pretty good.

Like I'm looking forward to what happens next and where the world takes me.

Not being like, oh God, retirement equals, you know, but that movement forward.

We're still young enough to do what we wanna do and love what we do.

And I think that's really admirable.

And it is, it does sound scary.

I can't wait to see what happens next.

And just on a side note, your kids are wonderful.

They're each individual person.

They're respectful, they're kind, they're hilarious.

You guys did a great job.

Without a doubt.

And they were not all really easy babies.

I remember Isaiah, bless his heart, he cried a lot.

And I gotta do this, you gotta do this.

And I'd come home and Joe, I'll never forget that night, Joe

was like, I'm going to work.

Take my child.

Yeah.

Cuz he was working nights.

Right.

And so yeah, after I had Isaiah, Diane lived up the street from

me after we were already grown.

Like, and you know, I was married and had my first baby and she was going

through paramedic school at the time, and my husband Joey was Working nights.

And so she would come and hang out with me in the evenings as I was a new

mom trying to figure out what to do.

And I helped her study for her paramedics test.

And she helped me with the screaming baby

we did

later found out was lactose intolerant.

So that's why he screamed all the time.

You live and learn.

Well again, it's those moments, right?

Not only did you help me through paramedic school, through promotional

processes, through, you know, horrible calls that I've been on, cuz

there's not a lot of people that I ever felt comfortable sharing with.

When I did my TEDx talk, you know, a year and a half ago, every day, two or

three times a week, you would listen to me and you would give me that feedback.

And I'll never forget when you were like, you just need to own

who you are and be proud of who you are and where you came from.

And you know that that constant, you know, ride or die of support is

just- I'll forever be grateful and I look forward to seeing what happens

when we have our grandbabies and , we get to, you know, be the crazy old

ladies that do wild and fun things.

As we continue to grow older together.

Yeah, I hope so.

I, I tease my kids all the time that I had three of 'em, so at least

one of them will make me a Grandma

Absolutely.

Well, you did.

I got one, so, and I'm not ready for him to, well, one and I have a bonus,

so I, I hope between the two of 'em, definitely, and since they're 12 years

apart, I'll still be the cool young grandma for one of 'em, and then maybe

a slightly older for the other one.

Still cool.

Still

It's so cool.

All right.

Well I know we have been chatting forever and I feel like we could

continue to chat forever because that's just the way we roll.

I want to ask you one more question as we kind of bring this to a close.

What does it mean to you to be part of a community?

And why is it important to you?

We all need people.

We all need a tribe.

We all need to have those ride or die people that you, that you talk about.

Right.

And so when I think of community, you know, I start

off with a smaller community.

I small off, I start off with my people that I know I can lean on,

that we reciprocate back and forth.

You can't be on an island.

Right?

I know that about me.

I am somebody who appreciates, uh, having lots and lots of of people probably cuz

I was raised in a huge Hispanic family.

Right?

Um, where, my grandma used to host Saturday breakfasts and if

whoever could come could come.

Right?

And there's 50 of us.

So she would throw down food for all 50 of us on, on Saturday.

So that's when I think of community, that's what I think of.

I think of sharing.

I think of food, I think of, um, you know, the people that

have your back that are support.

Um, when I think of larger community and even like in a

professional setting, right?

It still has the same values.

It still has the support, it still has the, you know, reciprocation of

like, I'm giving and you're receiving and then you're gonna give and I'm

gonna receive kind of mentality.

In a probation setting for community, I think of, you know,

resources, I think of support.

I think of, um, financial situation.

I think of how do we help the marginalized, um, that don't always

get the same opportunity and how can we be there for each other?

It's such a big word and it's such a broad kind of thing, right?

So, um, I think it just boils down to values for me.

You know, what, what do we value and what can we reciprocate in those?

Thank you for sharing.

I agree.

And that's really beautifully said.

It's, you know, it's community and you can't do it alone.

You can't be a community of one.

It can't be on an island.

We need each other.

People need connection.

Right?

We know that.

It's the first stage of, of psychological safety in any aspect is being able

to connect with each other and having this opportunity to, to share.

I, I agree and know that you're not alone.

Even if Geography separates people or time might separate people,

you're still, you're not alone.

And that connection is important.

I really appreciate that.

Well, thank you so much.

I look forward to having you back so we can talk about other experiences

that we've gone through in life.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

It was awesome, and I, I wish you the best With all of this, cuz it's awesome.

You're doing the good work and I am very, very proud of you.

I appreciate that.

Thank you for taking time out of your busy day to listen to this episode.

I know how valuable time is and I'm so grateful you have

given me part of your time.

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