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Welcome to the fire inside her, a brave space to share stories of navigating life transitions with authenticity, using our inner fire to light the way, and self care as our loyal travel companion. I'm your host, Diane Schroeder, and I'm so grateful you are here. Hello, fiery soul. It's sometimes difficult to find the words for my gratitude for the women who take time from their busy lives to share their stories, wisdom, and inspiration with me and you. This week's guest is no exception. Trice Kabundi is passionate about human potential and fostering self empowerment. As managing director at World 50 Group, she leads a community of Fortune 500 executives steering companies with a combined market cap of over $7,000,000,000,000. With 15 years of global experience, Trice has driven business and social impact across sectors.

In her former role as COO at Gray Matters Capital Incorporated, she led the company's operational and cultural transformations, where she survived to tell the tale. And that's not all. Trice shares parts of her life journey from her experiences as a first generation American with roots in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Trice and I bonded over our love of reading, sharing personal stories, and current favorites. She opens up about her challenges growing up in a wealthy community while feeling like an outsider and how those experiences shaped her resilience and dedication to inclusivity and kindness. Throughout this entire episode, Trice emphasizes the importance of balance in life between work, family, or personal interests, and she shares how practices like yoga has been transformative for her well-being. And can I just take a side note here to say so many of my guests talk about the benefits and the magic of yoga? If you haven't started a yoga practice, I highly encourage you to take a class. She speaks candidly about navigating difficult periods marked by grief, work, stress, and health issues, and how all of those challenging times led her to reevaluate her priorities and seek mental and physical wellness.

Finally, Trice talks about the significance of leadership, the impact of culture and organizations, and the power of making others feel seen and heard. Her stories of servant leadership and creating positive work environments resonate so deeply with me, and she offers valuable insights for anyone looking to lead with empathy and intention. Hello, fiery souls. I'm so excited today. We get to listen to the wisdom of Trice Kabundi all the way from Georgia. And, Trice, welcome.

Thank you so much, Diane. I'm so excited to be on this. I love the podcast.

Thank you. This is gonna be a lot of fun. So my icebreaker question, that I'm gonna I would love to know is, what are you currently reading?

Okay. So I, I have my, I also like the the upper brow book, right, that I'm reading, which is the the super professional book. And, what I just picked up, and I actually shared a copy with my brother, Oscar Kabundi's How to Listen. And so really diving into just, you know, listening, and I think in in the role that I hold, and and also I think we'll get into this, but in the role that I hold within my family and the spaces where you take up space, I, I do a lot of listening, but sometimes I think it's good to have a refresher on it because you can become so used to, you know, listening and and just being on autopilot that the intentionality is what I needed. The book that I am reading is, like, my junk food, and I think it's gonna be really interesting considering, you know, your background. So it is actually a standalone romance called When the Smoke Clears. Oh. And it is a big horse neigh who falls in love with a firefighter in I think it's, like, Sarasota, Florida or something.

It is just you can read it in one setting. It is everything you would expect about a dramatic romance.

Mhmm. I I I love I okay. I call them palate cleansers. I like the the spicy novels. You know what's gonna happen, the buildup for 3 quarters of the book, and then the happy

ending. I agree. You know how I know I've made it in, when I'm dating someone, I'm like, okay. It's time for us to have the talk. And they're like, what the heck is that? And I was like, I used to read voraciously as a child, but at some point, I began to sleep my aunts and my mother's harlequin romance novels, and I never looked back. So I do have a secret collection of those. I think I need to share with you so you have awareness.

Oh my gosh. I love that so much. It's the same so I didn't really share my love of reading with my husband, my now husband, when we first started dating just because, you know, I'd read before bed, and then we moved in together. And then when things got really stressful when I was at the firehouse, I just needed a palate cleanser. And so I'd be up all night on my Kindle just reading as fast as I could. And he's like, what are you doing? I'm like, oh, yeah. These are my books. So if I'm not sleeping, it has nothing to do with you.

I just wanna finish the book.

Yep. Yep. I'm like, if I'm if I'm on a trip with you or, I'm on a plane ride, I'm like, I look at that as an opportunity to read. They're like, you don't wanna watch a movie? I'm like, no. I I want to read uninterrupted. This is the quality I'm looking for.

Yes. Yes. Well, thank you for sharing that. I I love following or finding fellow readers on my travels and interviews. So alright. Well, let's just dive in then, and why don't you tell me and my listeners just a little bit about you and your journey and what your superpowers are?

Yeah. Absolutely. I, you know what? The way I high level always start or at least started to describe my journey is, you know, it's been the most beautiful gift of what happens when plans don't work out as you would like them to work out. And accepting that for the gifts that they are, I'm 1st generation American, so my parents moved to the US from the Democratic Republic of the Congo. My brothers and I were born in Pittsburgh. And by the time I was, like, 2 or 3, we had moved to Africa, and then we moved back And, like, the worst possible time, I think, any child could move back with a very different identity to the US, which is, like, when you're getting into middle school. Oh. Because that's the I know.

See? Yeah. That's the worst time to show up with an accent and clothing that's so different and such a different experience. And not only that, but they're like, you know where we will settle you, we will bring you to a conservative Christian southern academy, and you will thrive. And, like, that's where that's where they put me. And, I don't know. Looking at the time when I landed in that space, Diane, I can be vulnerable and open enough to say that that was a middle school and high school for me. I I never want to return, but I'm glad I went through the experience because it it built certain amount of resilience in me. But at the same time, I think the way it pushed me to be open to people even on the most extreme ends who have no love for who you are, but to understand how to navigate that and still show up with love and the understanding that sometimes they just don't know any better and how to navigate that, it taught me that piece.

Right? So once once I graduate from high school, I was like, I'm not staying in Georgia. Everyone's going to the same school. I am getting as far out as I can. And I was like, I'm going to go be a screenwriter. So I told my very African dad that that is what I was going to do. And he was like, no.

Try again.

He's like, no. No. There's you're not going to be employed, so, like, figure that out. So I actually wound up with the best place for me, which is a liberal arts, university in Central Virginia. It's called University of Richmond. I got into politics. I got into international relations, and I thrived in that environment, which led me to going to grad school right where my dad went to grad school at University of Pittsburgh. And I, I studied security and intelligence studies and and global political economy and African economics.

And, that allowed me to make my way to the African Union and Ethiopia. Plenty of stories to share there, during the Arab spring, and I I I wrote speeches for dignitaries, took a chance on getting my PhD after that, and, wound up working for a company called Grey Matters Capital, which changed the trajectory of my life. You know, I was doing a lot focused on developing the talent pipeline within the impact investing space, spun off a company from them, and that allowed me to make my way back to Africa, to Zambia, went through so many challenges in that role there in an interim country director role, came back to the US completely burnt out from working with government and, you know, really, really bad leaders and supporting an entire team and putting that weight on my shoulders. And, wound up with the company where I am today called called, World 50. Right? Where, essentially, if you think about the top executives in the world who, you know, are leading very big organizations, those are our clients who are members, and we serve them and try to get them connected to one another. And I lead one of those communities. And, I call it a bit of a sabbatical. I took 2 years away from the organization when an old boss came calling and said, I need someone to come and step in and lead the internal operations and strategy and turnaround of that very same organization, Grey Matters Capital, because she had been appointed as CEO.

And I remember crying, telling one of my bosses at World 50, had it not been for this woman, her name's Erica. I said, had it not been for Erica asking me to do this thing with her, I would never have left or will never be leaving. But she's doing a big job, and she's asked me to do it. And she gave me my career, and I can't think of a more beautiful thing to be able to do than to work with her in this capacity. And there's a million stories I could tell from the 2 years that we worked together. But once that concluded, I, had continued to have a pretty strong relationship with the folks over at World 50. And they reached back out and said this opportunity has opened up, and, you know, I think it's a it's a good one for you to drive the growth of one of our communities. And I jumped into it.

So I think, at the end of the day, you know, when I think about superpowers, for me, you know, I think I've never been afraid of running towards the messy, sticky, complicated challenges and really thinking through how do you get everybody to feel seen and heard and to participate, to create structure, to turn something around, and to get it to grow. And that's what I love to do, and I'm also a builder. So, actually, if you talk about, you know, what's not my superpower, the moment you're like, that thing you built, you gotta maintain it. I'm like, my god. Okay. I've gotta find a way out. I cannot. I don't maintain.

I build, and I Mhmm. I love the sleepless nights of that and then taking the rest and then going on to build the next thing.

Wow. Thank you for sharing. I would just like to say, are you hiring? Can I come work with you? Because I have goosebumps. Your story is just remarkable. So thank you for sharing, and I just I wanna go back a little bit. My question about middle school and high school, because I hated middle school and high school. It was absolutely terrible. I was really bullied.

It was it was just a a very awkward time, and it really wasn't until I did some serious work on myself that I could go back and look at it through that lens. So was that your experience? Did you have to maybe kinda unpack it? Okay. Because with your answer, I was like, she's done some work, because that's that's the beautiful way to recount that and take those gifts moving forward. But I didn't do that for a long time, so I just I had to ask that.

I love it. And you and I love it. You can always tell someone who's done the work by the language they use. Because I remember one time my cousins and I went on a girl trip. It's, like, 2 of my cousins were sisters. And we're all talking in the car, and I'm like, oh my god. We've all been to therapy, and it is clear. Because they're like, I feel and you should and and I'm like, oh my god.

Wrong. You my therapist speak. But, yes, one, I am an ardent believer in you've got to do the work, and I think, you know, it's and especially coming from a community. And I think a lot of immigrant communities tend to be this way, right, particularly in the US where there's a stigma attached to therapy. Like, why would you go talk about your challenges to a a stranger? And I'm like, this right here is why. Right? Like, this is why. For so many years in one in one institution, I I never showed up feeling like I belonged. Mhmm.

And I was sort of like an outsider. And I think that there were those instances of bullying. But I think that, you know, the other component of it too, Diane, was that this was a very, very wealthy community. Right? Like, baseball players and football players sent their kids here. And my dad worked for the United Nations, and part of, like, you know, his package, which is, like, phenomenal, was we will pay for your children's schooling wherever they choose to go to school. So I was very fortunate that I got this incredible education, but at the same time, I had a very different reality where my dad lived abroad and my mom was here. And, you know, we didn't come from money, and it's not to say that we weren't comfortable, but I just that was not lake houses were not my reality. Right? Driving a brand new Mercedes every year was not my reality.

So all these things weren't part of what I knew. And then on top of that, you're one of the few black people there, and you're African, and you're trying to navigate it. I never felt like I belonged, and there was some bullying and just components of just not really getting integrated there. And just experiences I had with teachers and students who had done certain things. I remember one time that student actually rapped. Do you remember those exercises they used to make us do back in the day when they gave you a fake baby and you have to spend the night with it?

Yes. And

they cried because they're like, this would teach you not to have sex. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. That that was yes. I had a bag of flour. That was my fake baby. Yeah. It was, like, a a 10 pound bag of flour or 5 pound bag of flour.

No. Like, if anything is missing, you have failed as a mother. You can't have sex. But this one cried and kept you up all night, and there were different ethnicities. And this one kid actually wrapped his in the Confederate flag and had a whole racial incident. And I remember I was in the 8th grade, and he was in high school, and I had to stand up for myself because nobody else did. And so by the time I left, I had there was so much hatred for that school. I never wanted to see anyone from that school.

I'll be very honest if people wanna be speaking. You know, I think our, we have another, you know, reunion coming up. And just for my own mental wellness, I've said I'd just rather not participate. It wasn't until, honestly, I got past grad school that I actually did the work to deal with it, to recognize there is trauma attached to that, and you are viewing the world a certain way. And part of that for me was I need to stop viewing the world through this lens of victimization because that's what I would do, and everything felt traumatic. So if I would engage with people who had a similar profile to them, even as I elevated within my career, all I could think about was these are the people from your school. And they don't even know them, but I'm like, this is them. And I really realized, like, for me to get to a point where I am healthy and I am achieving things in a healthy way, I have a healthy relationship with wealth accumulation, all of these things that I have to actually go seek therapy and do the work to navigate and deal with that, in addition to other things, but also that specifically.

Kudos to you for doing that. And it's funny you're telling the story about you and your cousins. 2 weeks ago, I was back east with my mom and my cousins to visit her sister, and it was the same thing. Like, the 3 of us were talking. I'm like, yep. We've all been to therapy. The way you know? And it's actually quite beautiful because we can talk about growing up and our family. And, you know, I I always say, yes.

There was a lot of generational trauma in my family, and yet there was also a lot of generational gifts that, you know, appear for a reason. There's a lot of experiences I don't understand, you know, walking through the world as a white woman that everyone assumes is privileged, but I'm like, man, I grew up in the hood. Like, there is no I am still trying to work out my stuff with wealth accumulation, and, like, I often, like, how did I get to where I am? Like, how did that happen? Because that's not the trajectory of my life. And a lot of the kids I grew up with, definitely, I'm like, okay. I made it out. That's what I we made it out.

To not fear money is something I think we don't talk about often enough.

No. We don't. I think for most of my life, I gave money so much power over me. And and just not you know, my parents didn't talk about it. My dad spent it. My mom tried to figure out how to pay things so that we were super poor, didn't even know it because I'd be like, hey. Can I get a new pair of Nikes to play basketball? And my mom would be like, yeah. Sure.

That's fine. We'll just charge it. And so it just didn't set me up for any favors, and it took until I was in my forties to really, like, okay. This is money. It doesn't give me power. I tell it what to do. Yep. Yep.

And and and get that to that space, and I wish we talked about it more. I wish, you know, my son, I he's almost 12. And from the time he was young, I'd give him money. I'm like, alright. Here's what you need to do with it, and you tell it where to go. And, you know, that exchange, I think I'm hoping that it changes for him than it was for me because I figured that's the best I can do.

Yep. Well, that's the beauty I think of also, you know, why I say that work is so important because it's not just for you.

Mhmm.

But it it's it's also a gift to everybody who engages with you. Right? Whether it's the gift of a child or a family member that you're raising and you're you're turning into the next generation of, you know, who's gonna own this place or, you know, it's it's the people that you work with, the people who report into you. I mean, the person you run into the restaurant who's having a very shitty day. Like, the work that you do reverberates because you have such an impact on the people around you. And, you know, like, we say hurt people hurt people. And it's like you you continue. That's the generational curse that, right, where Yeah. If we can't fix it and we can't control for it, we spread it out into the world.

Right? And I think that's, you know, a whole other level of a pandemic that we introduced right into the world that we spread.

Absolutely. Well, you know, and I always say your energy enters the room before you do. You can tell when someone comes into a room what's going on before they say a word. One of the few things you get to control in life, right, is how you're you know, how you carry yourself, the energy, and your attitude. And it is through work and realizing, you know, there's a lot of other factors to it. But I think to be a responsible leader and to really, like, be a genuine authentic leader and just human in general, doing that work to understand, yourself because it just makes it makes you better. And when you're better, the people around you and in your orbit are better. So I would love to know how all of these experiences has translated into how you lead and how you work with and coach and lead your community.

I'll start by saying this. Every morning so I'm I'm a very spiritual person, and I'll often you know, I I bring into everything I do, actually. So even when I'm moderating events, I'll say things like, well, you know, some of you are looking like you're in church here, a black woman who's a church goer, so let's get spiritual. Like, I I love to because I think everyone has their diversity, so I'm a very spiritual person. And every morning, actually, Diane, one of the key things I pray for before I do anything else is I always say, let me be a safe place for other people. Mhmm. Because if I can at least have accomplished that one thing where to your point about energy, if I can enter to a room and someone can say, that is a safe place for me to go, whether I have done right or wrong, whether I am failing or succeeding, whatever it is, if I can be that safe place for someone, that's what I want to be. And to me, when I think about leadership and what all these experiences have taught me right? I I remember one point when I was in Ethiopia, I was asked to join a meeting by one boss.

And in front of, like, when I talk about, like, global leaders in Africa, this woman kicked me off publicly. I had, like, tears in my eye. Oh, no. And I remember how another leader absorbed me, who was her boss, and and made her apologize and gave me opportunities and said, why don't you do this? And here's other meetings I'm gonna get you in. I was like, you are a safe space in that moment. Right? And I think about all the other gifts I've received in that. And I think for me, when I thought about how it's really curated that leadership, I don't shy away from the concept of servant leadership. I don't shy away from saying I am here to serve you.

For me, it is meant to be one of the most thankless jobs in the world because, really, your job is to create the environment and pathways that allow organization and people to thrive. So you are in essence serving people, but from the front. Right? And I think that's how I view it. And so some of the best leaders I have had have been the ones who have given me you know, I often think about it as, let me give you opportunities to do things you might not be prepared for so you can stretch. But, no, I'm here to support you. So I I'll even say, think or swim. Right? And just because you're sinking I I I didn't say sink or drown. I said you're gonna you know? I mean, I didn't say, you know I said sink or swim, which means I will be there to pull you out, but you are going to sing you are going to experience those things.

So supporting them and giving them those environments, I think there's also you know, we talk a lot about ruinous empathy where we can try to be so nice to a point where it's actually ruinous because we won't say the things that need to be said. But I think as a leader too, it's not just being able to be direct. But I think a leader is called on to understand the personality and the character of the people you're being direct with. Mhmm. People receive things differently. Right? Some people, they need to be told direct head on. Here's what you did wrong. Here's what you needed to fix it.

Go fix it. And I promise you, they are, like, the ones, like, you know, who need to be punched in the face, and they're, like, alright. I'm ready to go. I'm a warrior. I'm ready or going out. There are others. They're, like, no. Please.

I need a little bit softness with it. I think you've gotta know how to deliver it. Right? You've gotta know how to deliver that message. And I think for me, the most powerful thing too that I've learned, and I actually share this with other people that I I work with too and that I've mentored and through the coaching is if you can give to other people that which you are most lacking, it will transform your life. And in the workplace, the way I think about that is if you, as a leader, wake up and you say, I don't feel heard by my leadership, give that in 3X to your team and your people and your peers. And the way it will transform how you feel and show up is incredible. You wake up and you feel is I don't feel supported. I am scared.

I don't feel capable. Take those emotions and say, how can I give them to other people? And when you do, it is incredible how life rewards that. Because in the worst of times, you'll get a note from someone. And even to this day now, there are days I wake up and I'm like, I'm failing at my job. And I will get a note from someone I have not spoken to in a long time. And they're like, hey. Was just thinking about you and how you did x, y, and z for me and wanted to let you know, you're just a phenomenal leader, and I appreciate you. So praying for you today.

I'm like, yeah. That's how the world works. Right?

And so

that's how I always approach it and view it.

Well, your words have just reached me in a place that I'm so grateful. I love leadership. I love being a leader. It was I loved my crew when I was in the fire service, and I felt very unsupported by my boss. And I felt like I would describe it as I was on a high tight rope without a safety net, and it was awful. And so I would pour into my people. I would I loved them, and I believe that leadership is love. You have to love your people.

May not always agree with them, may not always like them, but I I wanted them to not you know, I felt like I was the funnel. You know? Like, I wanted to support them, and, you know, it got to the point where I I I finally left and decided that I could figure out to do something different and work on my own. And today, after we're done with this conversation, I'm gonna go have lunch with one of my old employees. And I and I do. I get those I get those notes. So you just thank you because I feel I feel seen. I'm like, okay. I did.

I was doing my job, and I never had the language until just now. So thank you so much for for that. I just feel like it is so important as leaders, and it it means putting your ego in check. It means that it it is not about you when you take on the role of the designated adult. When you decide you're gonna lead, it is about everything you just said. So thank you so much for saying that so beautifully and eloquently.

No. I appreciate you saying that. To your point about ego and all those pieces, I think, in my mind, you can have some you can have a leader who's hitting all the right numbers. But if the people around them don't feel supported, if the people around them don't feel seen, then, you know I mean, I know plenty of people will challenge this in this day and age. But I'm like, you're failing as a leader because you're only getting a percentage of it right. You know? Like, hit your numbers, but make that person feel seen. Make that person, right, feel heard and and acknowledged. And, you know, there's, this you know, I won't say his name, but I I used to work with him actually at World 50.

And something that I stole from him and brought him to another organization I worked in and even board work I've done and everything else that I've done now, I always say it, is when we would wrap up our check-in, he would always say, alright, Trice. I appreciate you. Thank you so much. Mhmm. And I realized, like, there's a difference in that language. It seems small, but, like, I appreciate it versus I appreciate you.

Yes.

And now what I want to make sure everyone always hears whenever I engage with them to the point. I'm, like, you might be sick of it. It might be my trademark, but you will know it. Because I will look you in the eye and say it. I appreciate you. Like, the you that showed up to do this thing when you didn't have to, the you that showed up when the world is really tough, the you that showed up and is giving your all, or the you that showed up and this is the best that you can give at this moment. I appreciate every variation about you, and I think they need to see that and hear it.

Absolutely. I mean, people at the end of the day, you know, I there's a lot of a lot of talk, you know, diversity, inclusion, equity. It that is all very important. I believe that at the end of the day, it's about culture. And when you have a healthy culture where people feel safe and that they belong, everything else takes care of itself, not without work. So me a little bit about your thoughts on culture and how important, you know, culture is and how it ties into, you know, post pandemic. It's no longer work life balance. It's work life integration.

So how does, you know, culture translate into all areas of someone's life?

Yeah. Absolutely. Well, it's funny because, I there's 2 quotes on culture that I love that I've heard at different points in my career. 1 was when, the head of HR for a a major utility company said, culture is really leadership looking at their reflection. And there was another leader recently at a a a summit that we held. He's a CEO. And what he said was, leadership gets the culture it deserves. And those two things combined and I'll throw in one other one.

There's another former CEO who said, culture is actually what people say when leaders aren't in the room about how a company actually works. You think about your first day on the job and somebody pulls you aside and goes, okay. So here's how you really get things done. That's culture. Right? So all those things combined, you know, I think culture, it's the lifeblood of an organization. And I remember when Erica asked me to come in and, the general COO of Great Matters Capital, one of the key things she said to me was, it's not just about structure, it's not just about operations, we need a full cultural turnaround. I need you to to lead this turnaround of our culture to take people from being founder led and feeling fearful about how the founder leads to being hopeful and visionary and being able to take control of what it is that they're leading and build. And I think, for me, really, what we were saying was we're building a different organization because because that culture is the lifeblood.

And culture is also what follows people home. Someone takes your culture home with you, and I don't think we'd think about that. So, again, if you have a very shitty culture, it's competitive, people feel supported, they stab each other in the back. The leadership sucks. When they get home, they're either bringing horrible branding, and their whole family knows, and they're like, can't wait for you to get another job. Or they're bringing home that negativity. And in the household, it reverberates because it's so and so had a bad day at work today, and they know it. So for me, that culture piece, that's that's where it's critical.

And I'll hit on something you said, which was the work life integration. And I actually take a life streams approach to it, where in my mind, you know and I think I credit my dad for this because he's, like, wise sage. And at one point, he was like, my daughter, you are imbalanced, and let's talk about it. And we have this view that life is a river, and what's feeding that river are the different streams. And you've gotta think about balance because what often happens and so for me, I think about work, family, romantic relationship. Right? I think about volunteering. I've identified these 7 streams. And, honestly, Diane, I audit them, and I can tell when I am not feeling at peace is when it is just work that's flowing into this life of our own.

Everything else is taking a step back. And so I often think about the space to integrate those things and say, are you intentionally auditing yourself and done the work to say, am I doing the hobby? Am I doing a creative thing that actually sets my soul on fire that's not related to my family, that's not related to work? And quite honestly, sometimes people will be like, well, volunteering is my hobby. I'm like, no. No. And and I get why you wanna say that, but just think about it. Your phone's ringing. They're asking you to be places. You're on a strict schedule.

You're delivering of yourself. I'm like, how are you also feeding yourself? And so I now look at it and say, the way that we think about what feeds that that life river in many ways really is about the, you know, the integration, as you said, in the harmony. But I think it's that unsexy word too of thinking about, like, an audit. Are you auditing what's feeding you and where your time is going in an intentional way? And I also advocate for people. Take a day and say, like, companies have strategic planning days. Do you have a personal strategic planning day?

Yes. Yes. Yes. I love that. I do it. I promote it. Yep. Absolutely.

For all the reasons you just said, I'm like, you might be living in my brain, which is a really scary place to be, or I might be living in yours. I'm not sure. But, taking care of yourself and, you know, I love the river analogy because when I when I really dove in and started doing the the heavy work, not just the periphery work, I was like, I felt like my life is a river, and I keep moving these rocks out of the way to shore myself up, but more rocks keep appearing, and it never ends. When I work with groups and women, specifically, and even I I have spoken to a lot of men, I I frame it as keeping your cheese on the cracker, and I use the analogy of a charcuterie board. And we all love a good charcuterie board. Yep. But we're so focused on what we put on the board. We never focus on the board.

And if Yep. You have too much stuff on a paper plate, it's not sustainable. So that same that audit I love the word audit. I don't use that word, but I think it is just a very good reminder of maintaining that. And you also said something else about that creativity. So when I hear that, I hear, like, self this is a beautiful way of self care and a great segue. So how do you take care of yourself? What do you do to maintain that creativity, that joy, that connection, you know, that is not attached to the expectations of anyone else.

And I kept waking up, and I kept having anxiety attacks. I'd lost a loved one. They had passed away unexpectedly. And I just watching them pass away was one of the most traumatizing things for me. And and experiencing that loss and work was hard. And I remember going to a 3 days after we buried him, I went to a whole big event that we had as a company, which was the worst decision I could have made. Right? I had, like, tears there. And all these things were happening, and work was hard.

Life felt hard. Relationships felt hard. I was waking up at 3 AM every morning. I couldn't sleep. I had gotten a PCOS diagnosis. And at one point, I woke up crying. And I actually prayed, and I said, I don't wanna take away my own life. But if you chose this moment and time to take me, I would be okay with that decision because I don't think I have it in me to do anything else on this earth.

And I've done everything I can, and I'm failing everyone. And I was so ugly. And I remember that's when I went back with therapy and a year of rebuild. And so the biggest lesson that I told everyone, I feel bad for my company that now is when I'm in the zone of, like, do trees. And I'm like, sorry, guys. This is where I'm capping you. I'm not spending all nights working on you. And for me, it really was going back to that audit, and I realized family, work, those were the only things I was doing.

And so I did the whole take a strategic planning day, and it was physical and mental wellness. Right? I Mhmm. Went back to actually get aligned with my doctors, figure out what I needed to do. And the big thing for them was, like, your cortisol levels matter and your stress is off the charts and all these things that you're you're going to kill yourself. Right? Yeah. Which where you are and where, you know, your labs are right now. And that's where yoga came into play, which again transformed my life. Like, hot yoga and I, if it was a man, I mean, I would be married with, like, no prenup today.

And my favorite quote is from my mom when she says, if you were to die on the job, they will replace you. And it was that realization that, like, you will be replaced in certain spaces. Right? And so how are you feeding those components since it's the art of discovery? Doing things just to learn is this something that sets me on fire. And I've been opening myself up to doing that. When I look back at that woman who was on in her bed in tears asking to be taken away and where I am today, like, bang. And I'm trying not to cry, but, like, it's it's such a different reality.

Thank you for sharing. I know that's very vulnerable, and, you know, grief is such a bitch. Like, it's it's been necessary, but it's grief is hard, and it it takes you to places you know, they don't say rock bottom for a reason. It's it's hard. And to have the courage to climb out of that and, you know, explore and be curious and give yourself that grace and permission to find what sets your soul on fire is a testament to who you are as a human and your bravery and strength. So well done. And yoga? Yes. I'm not really a hot yoga fan, I'll be honest, but I love yoga.

My husband is a hot yoga fan, and I'm like, I don't like sweating in those areas for that long. Like, it was

in those areas?

I just I don't need to feel that, you know, down my crack all the time. But, anyway, I do love yoga, and it is again, it's those that connection, that mind, body, soul connection. Everyone listening, get out and do something outside of your comfort zone that, you know, if you'd say 5 year old you, what did you wanna be when you grow up? Explore that. Go to that beginner's mind, be curious, and just fail, and let it be messy, and let it be hard, and let it be challenging. And then have fun, and don't spend so much time worrying about what you should be doing. Worry about what you want

to be doing. Like, suck at it. And and I I never do these, but I'll give a plug. Actually, the the studio I go to is is called Performance Power Yoga. It's currently in Lawrenceville, Georgia. When I say when I walked in, I was so scared of doing yoga. And the 2 instructors, the way they took us in as beginners and started off with journaling, and why are you here? And you, just by being here and breathing and being intentional, are doing yoga. And that whole, like, 6 week series, which now, you know, we're we're part of the larger group now.

When I say that that saved me, that's why I push for every single person to at least try it. I said do something that aligns mind, body, breathing because it will transform your life.

Absolutely. And if you don't mind sharing a little bit more spirituality, I agree with that. That was another transformation in my life, becoming a lot more spiritual and just really connecting with, you know, the universe and how how it works. And but, literally, it's always like, oh, here we go again. Thank you. Lesson learned or, you know, the gifts that you receive. What does your spiritual practice look like as part of your self care aside from the prayers in the morning?

Yeah. Absolutely. So I think for sure prayers. The other thing is I actually do a daily devotional. Mhmm. And, it's it's like a YouTube video thing, and I just go through a series. And I love it because it really challenges me to, you know in many ways, they do like a collection again of, like, biblical components. And it just allows me to reflect very differently on it.

And I say that I'm very selfish about my faith because I was raised in Christianity. I actually left for quite a bit of time to go on journey to say, did I want this because it's for me? Or do I want it because I was raised in it? Mhmm. And so I think my return back to the faith is so spiritually driven. And, you know, so, like, anti orthodoxy in many ways. And I think that works for so many people, but it didn't work for me. And I think that's how I've come to view it. Right? You need to find what's customized and works for you. So there's that, you know, I'm I'm not gonna be the person you see at church every single Sunday.

Right? Like, it's just there are moments in, like, I I think I want to spend time with family or I want to do these other things, but that's a component of it. But the biggest part for me is, 1, the meditation side of it and being able to meditate on the sprint that you find in the words and the music that resonate with you. So there are days, I'm sure people are passing me on 85 in Atlanta, and I've got my hand like this because I'm looking at, like, CC Wayne Winans, and I'm, like, loving this music. Right? Like, I'm diving in. I'm, like, yes. This is me. But I think the other component of it is I think about the similarities that so many faiths and religions have in us saying the same thing. Yeah.

And so for me, I also use it to say, if I am not living according to some of the greatest commandments that we have and the greatest commandment in my faith that we have been given is love, and then we were given a definition of love You're gonna get me on the whole sermon here, Diane, but we were given a definition of love. Right? And it's like love, joy, peace, patience, kindness. All those things are still like, this is what love is. If we are not expressing that to each other, even the people who are so far different from who we are, And if we are not expressing that again, as I go back to my faith, some of the biggest outcasts in society were purposefully integrated and included. So all those things for me, the way it also shows up is I will check myself if I'm in a situation I'm like, oh, yeah. That part of me did not show up. I'm going to go apologize. I'm going to go do x, y, and z.

Because sometimes, I think it's also there for you to check yourself. It's not for other people to check you through your faith, but you have to check yourself. And so in addition to being that piece of that that mental fortitude, it helps me think about going back to leadership, even how I show up as a leader and those things that I do. So I don't mind apologizing to people when I do wrong. I mean, I do mind. But I know it's a good thing because there are times I'm like, oh god. I know I need to apologize.

Yes.

I know I was wrong. But can we admit that I was, like, 10% right? But no. You know? So that's that's how it shows up for me. Right? I think it's it's integrated in life and how you make decisions and how you think. But sometimes, I think a lot of us have missed the boat on with the key tenants of what we're actually supposed to be doing actually are, and we're focused on exactly the wrong things we were told not to focus on.

Yes. Again, thank you for sharing, and that was a beautiful sermon. And I always say acceptance is love, And, you know, that's at the end of the day, it's acceptance of not only the people around you, but acceptance of yourself. And that that love is just at the end of the day, it's about love.

Yes. This is the love podcast. Yes. Oh, it's about love.

All the feels. Alright, Jeez. Well, I could talk to you literally all day, so I'm not gonna turn to fangirl too much because I'm sure you have things to do as well. I am so grateful that you took time out of your busy schedule to share your wisdom, and there's so much of it. This is quickly becoming one of my favorite episodes I have recorded, and I'm just so grateful for that. What do you have working going on now, and how can my listeners find you to get more of your wisdom?

What kind of thing? Everybody laughs at me because I have, like, this Instagram that I never log into, and I'm like, why? Like, why? So, I'll send that to you, but, actually, also, I have I usually, I'm on LinkedIn.

That's just where I am, and I have people who DM me on LinkedIn all the time. And, honestly, I am always up for virtual coffee, in person coffee. You know, I love to have conversations, and whatever it is that people have going on, just reach out, and I usually respond.

Oh, perfect. I plan on doing that just so you know.

Let's do it. Ice cream date.

Yes. I can't wait. Alright. Perfect. And then my final question for you is if you could go back to that awkward middle school girl that was really going through a lot adjusting to being thrown back in the conservative deep south and being a minority underrepresented, what would you tell her?

I would actually say to her, I am so proud of you. And that decision that you made to go outside and sit with the girl who no one wanted to be friends with when you could have had friends, That's why you've gotten you're going to get to experience some of the most beautiful opportunities in this life. So I would just say immense pride because that was an easy.

That's perfect. And I think we'll just stop there on that mic drop moment. Thank you so much, and I will link all your information in the show notes. And, Trice, thank you for just sharing this incredible hour. I appreciate it.

I appreciate you, Diane. Thank you.

Another great conversation. Thank you for giving the valuable gift of your time and listening to The Fire Inside Her podcast. Speaking of value, one of the most common potholes we fall into on the journey to authenticity is not recognizing our value. So I created a workbook. It's all about value. Head on over to thefireinsideher.com/value, to get your free workbook that will help you remember your value. Until next time, my friend.