Let’s connect with our deepest desires. Join Diane Schroeder and guest Fanny Leboulanger on this transformative episode of The Fire Inside Her as they challenge societal taboos and explore the journey from being unsure how to embrace your own body to finding pleasure and sexual liberation. Discover how reconnecting with your body can fundamentally transform your experience with pleasure and orgasm. Fanny shares her revolutionary approach, fusing ancient wisdom and modern science, to help individuals heal from sexual shame and trauma. Dive deep into sacred exploration of pleasure. From releasing tension in your body to embracing the multitude of orgasmic experiences, this conversation will leave you questioning everything you thought you knew about pleasure. Tune in for a bold, thought-provoking episode that will reignite the fire within you and set you on the path to profound self-discovery.
Dr. Fanny Leboulanger is the Lifegasm Fairy Godmother and creator of Your Sexyfied Life podcast. After years of working as a doctor helping women, Dr. Fanny decided to follow what was (obviously) missing: helping them reconnect to their soul-full pleasure and their Orgasmic Power.
Using a combination of ancient wisdom, modern science, a talent to teach, and a French sense of humor, her mission is to help you reclaim the thriving and fulfilling life you deserve.
The book that Diane mentioned: Come as You Are: The Surprising New Science that Will Transform Your Sex Life by Emily Nagoski
How to connect with Dr. Fanny
How to connect with Diane
Are you excited to get a copy of the workbook that Diane mentioned?
FREE Value Workbook: TheFireInsideHer.com/value
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Diane Schroeder [00:00:00]:
Welcome to The Fire Inside Her podcast. I’m your host, Diane Schroeder, inviting you to kick back, relax, and join myself and other travelers on the journey to authenticity. You are in a safe space to open your heart, and mind soak in inspiration, soak up wisdom, and feel all the feels. Let’s get started as we stoke the flames of your authentic self.
Diane Schroeder [00:00:37]:
Hi, friends. This week's episode is, pretty much for adult ears only. So, if you've got me blasting on speaker or in the car with littles, go ahead and hit pause, and then you can hop on later or throw your earbuds in. Because this week, we are talking all about pleasure and sex, specifically pleasure and sex for us as women. And really diving into how we can bring more pleasure and more sex into our lives. I'm not going to do this as a solo episode, but I'm really happy to have Dr. Fanny here from France. She is a lifegasm fairy godmother and the creatrix of Your Sexified Life podcast.
Diane Schroeder [00:01:31]:
After years of working as a doctor helping women, Dr. Fanny decided to follow what was obviously missing. Helping women reconnect to their soulful pleasure and their orgasmic power using a combination of ancient wisdom, modern science, a talent to teach, and a French sense of humor. Her mission is here to help you reclaim a thriving and fulfilling life that you deserve. So, I'm just going to hop right into this and enjoy the episode.
Diane Schroeder [00:02:09]:
Welcome, Fanny. Thank you for being a guest on the show. And I guess I should back up and say, do you like to be called Dr. Fanny, Fanny, Dr. Leboulanger?
Fanny Leboulanger [00:02:22]:
No. I don't care. You can call me Fanny. I just have a title because I did a ton of studies, but I go by my first name, and I'm happy with that.
Diane Schroeder [00:02:30]:
A ton of studies. We're definitely going to dive into that. But if you would do me the honor of pronouncing your last name because it's so beautiful when you say it.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:02:40]:
So, hi, everyone. My name is Fanny Leboulanger. If you want to laugh, that means the baker.
Diane Schroeder [00:02:46]:
So, we're sitting down talking to the baker today. My random question to get this started is, what is your favorite baked good?
Fanny Leboulanger [00:02:57]:
Baked good is like the candy? I’m sorry.
Diane Schroeder [00:02:59]:
No. Like, a cookie or croissant or bread.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:03:04]:
Great. I thought I had great English. That's amazing. I am definitely a cookie lover. Mhmm. Yes.
Diane Schroeder [00:03:13]:
Do you have a favorite kind?
Fanny Leboulanger [00:03:15]:
I love, I wish I could say that I love dark chocolate, but I'm a milk chocolate, girl. Like, 99% of cacao, I'm out.
Diane Schroeder [00:03:25]:
It's too bitter. I agree. Give me a good old fashioned milk chocolate, and I'm much happier. Awesome. Well, I'm so excited to have you with us today and to talk to my community because it's something I've never talked about. We talk a lot about leadership and self-care and authenticity and community. And I think something that we don't talk enough about, especially when it comes to self-care is sex.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:03:56]:
Diane Schroeder [00:03:59]:
And all the things that go with sex. And I think, you know, in our culture in America, there's a lot of shame wrapped around sex in general and just expressing yourself. And, you know, on my journey to authenticity, I read a book called, Come as You Are.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:04:18]:
Hell, yeah. I give that to all of my coachies. Like, this is a basic thing. Start it.
Diane Schroeder [00:04:23]:
It changed my life. And I will link the book in the show notes, but I felt so much freedom. I wish I would have read that book 25 years ago. I wish someone would have said, here. This is normal. This is what you have to worry about, especially as, you know, in the middle of life, it quickly falls to the bottom of the list. I think at least it has for me and kind of awakening that divine feminine in us and, as you say, sexify.
Diane Schroeder [00:04:50]:
So, I guess my first question is tell us a little bit about your journey and how you went from being a doctor to being a coach and why your purpose of why talking about sex is so important to you.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:05:06]:
I would like to just share first, if you want to give a great gift to an important woman in your life, give her that book. No brainer.
Diane Schroeder [00:05:13]:
Yes. Emily Nagoski, Come as You Are.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:05:19]:
That being said, so, I am a doctor. I'm a family doctor. And during my studies, I hit up, oh, well, like, a lot of us. You know, like, life comes and say, knock, knock. You're doing something wrong, and you know it, but I'm going to show you you're doing it wrong. So, I was living on such an autopilot. I didn't know that at the time. And I die, I had 2 epilepsy seizures during my internship.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:05:52]:
Well, residency. Yeah. During residency, and so, I had to start looking. I started seeing that I was so proud of myself having my body just as a tool from my mind. This is so problematic now that I think about it, but it started there. So, I became a yoga teacher to get some kind of reconnection to my body and 2 things came at the same time. Even if I am a family doctor, I practice gynecology on a daily basis. Doing the same as a gynecologist it's just that I don't have a title. So, I had many patients that come to me with issues in their sex lives, like, buladenia and things like that. And I had almost no results from the exams that I was prescribing and just sending them to a sexologist. There are not so many of them, and it takes month to have an appointment. And people were like, but I don't have a problem. Well, yes and no. I remember 1 woman coming to me saying, doctor, I'm thinking I'm broken. Like, I've never had an orgasm. I'm 34, and I've never had any, so I'm wondering if I'm broken or something. And at the same time, what happened in my personal life is I actually got tired of having my orgasms only for my partner. I love him very much, but a part of me was like, how come you're giving them to me? Like, there's, no.
Diane Schroeder [00:07:25]:
I want to do it for myself.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:07:28]:
Yeah. And then when you start thinking that, you're like, actually, I am disgusted by my own genitals. Like, the idea of just touching her? Hell, no. So, I was, yeah, starting from afar, I guess. And that's how I met the approach I'm sharing to my coachie with today, which is kind of an integrated tantric approach. Basically, getting the best of both worlds, like Eastern wisdom and Western science, and how actually I deeply resonate with that more than becoming a sexologist because I think we have so much more before making sexuality another medical problem. So many issues can be resolved or just disappear if you do some inner child healing, if you just connect to your pelvic floor, if you just do some gentle trauma healing. We have a such a whole palette of tools that is available for all of us that actually makes us feel better. And when we feel better and then we own that we are powerful, suddenly a lot of your sexual issues just soul themselves.
Diane Schroeder [00:08:42]:
Oh, thank you for sharing. I commend you on a leap that is or, you know, that stepping out of your comfort zone and recognizing that, hey. I get this. I've done years of medical training in medical school, and being a doctor is fantastic. And seeing that there's a need that to connect the dots for women to really, you know, talk more about sex and how everything impacts how we feel sexually. There's so much and, you know, you said it best, you know, healing your trauma, and that's all about doing the work. Right? That's the journey to authenticity. And taking care of yourself is starting to do the work, healing trauma, healing all of that so you can be forward facing for life and have pleasure in life, and I think pleasure a lot of times.
Diane Schroeder [00:09:39]:
And I'm curious to hear your take on this is, you know, it's not just about body image. It's not just about loving yourself. It's about just getting in touch with yourself, literally and figuratively and understanding who you are. Right?
Fanny Leboulanger [00:09:58]:
There are so many things that we are told even in self-development and self-evolution. Have compassion towards yourself. Great. Now I hate myself. How do I do that? Accept your body. Come on. I just took 1 kilogram, and I'm like, I am fat. What do I do? And so, what I noticed is that doing some embodiment work, and it can go from self-pleasure or just self-touch or just gentle touch anywhere on your body to actually recall this sense of pleasure.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:10:31]:
I always say that we are the only species with volva owning bodies that have an organ dedicated to pleasure, like the clitoris, has no other purpose than having thousands of nerves just for pleasure. So, basically, cutting ourselves from pleasure is just us wandering around with just 1 leg, and the other one being, like, I'm not useful here. So, if you want to start, start with pleasure.
Diane Schroeder [00:11:04]:
Right. I will. And I think, again, I think of pleasure is a taboo word to some extent. We don't allow ourselves pleasure because there are 5 other things that we need to get done or 50 other things that we need to get done. And that, am I worthy of pleasure? Obviously, that's a rhetorical question. Yes. Every single person is worthy of pleasure and feeling good, and that's something that no one can take away from us because we can do that all on our own with a partner, without a partner. But I guess, how do you tell or what would you say to people? Where does someone even start? Like, I know that I want to feel great. I want pleasure. I want orgasms. I want all of these things. Where does it start? Because it gets overwhelming, and you're like, okay. I just can't comprehend all that. So, where do you tell people to start?
Fanny Leboulanger [00:12:04]:
Actually, really simple because pleasure can be from a various number of sources. You can get pleasure from just eating a piece of chocolate. Looking at it, smelling it, touching it, feeling it melt between your fingers, tasting it and keeping it for 10 seconds in your mouth. Some people will just, like, get some sense of turn on by just a piece of chocolate. Pleasure can come from your touch. I am a firm believer that to get some pleasure, you need to get some connection to your body. And the more connection to your body you got, the more pleasure will you experience, and also honor that at the beginning, it may be hard. So, just honoring yourself and getting, for example, like, a nice oil that smells amazing and putting it on your hands and just smelling them. And if you want, slowly start to massage yourself wherever it feels good.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:13:03]:
And if it is in your shoulders, it's the beginning because you're, like, having a rough day in front of your computer and your shoulders are tied, start with that. And then if you want to go deeper in a more usually told erogenous stone, I always offer to start with breast massage because so many of us have so much stored there. Whereas it's female gaze, male gaze, all of our heart traumas and breakups and inner child wounds and things. So, basically, they are numb too, and they can be a really good way to start without being too frightening. Like, you don't sell pleasure? Go to Tasha Rova and have an orgasm from the inside of your vagina right away. Nah. This is not going to work.
Diane Schroeder [00:13:55]:
Right. Right. That's like, step 10. Let's go back to step, maybe, 1.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:13:59]:
Or 0.5 if you want.
Diane Schroeder [00:14:01]:
Exactly. Like, let's just wrap our brain around the idea that we can pleasure ourselves and there's no shame around that. Would you agree that it's being present is really step 1. Because everything you're saying that enjoying a piece of chocolate, it's being present in the moment to really take in everything that's going on and not just, like, numbing. Right? Like, not just eating a piece of chocolate because you have a sweet craving, but just savoring that piece of chocolate and looking at it and being present in that moment and trying to turn all the busyness off, would you say that's important as well?
Fanny Leboulanger [00:14:38]:
Oh, yeah. Of course. And also honor that being present can be challenging, and being present, you don't need to spend 10 minutes in meditation to stay present and, like, build a connection to the present moment. Really just, to me, being present is just coming back to your sensation. What am I seeing? What am I smelling? What am I hearing? What am I touching? What or who am I eating? Tasting?
Diane Schroeder [00:15:11]:
I love that. And my next question is why do we carry so much in our chest? Is it because that's where our heart is? Is that our heart chakra? Or why do you find that we carry a lot of baggage there?
Fanny Leboulanger [00:15:25]:
The heart chakra thing makes total sense. I do want a disclaimer there. This is just me wandering around than just trying to pinpoint where I got all my info and things. I guess the heart chakra, of course. I also believe it is connected to our lungs. And in Chinese medicine, the lungs, if they are unbalanced, it's a question of sadness. So many of us are sad inside. Even if sometimes we don't feel it. The first time, like, I’m not sad. Oh, maybe I am and have the right to be sad. When you look at this fucked up patriarchal society around us, like, we have the right to be sad and angry. There's that. There's also, in my opinion, literally the muscle contraction from all the traumas we have not released. When you have been hurt, when you had a breakup, or just when someone just touched you to your heart because you invested some time and energy in them. You build something, and then you get crushed.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:16:38]:
That literally, like, the muscles contracts to protect you, and we are not told to complete those stress cycles so that we can release this tension. And we're, like, closed and with our shoulders to the front and things. So many factors.
Diane Schroeder [00:16:59]:
Agree. It's not as simple as, you know, I know I would like it to be. So, tell me what steps to take and a, b, and c, and then from now this sexual animal. And to my mom listening to this show, if she is, I apologize for the sensitive nature of this. But I think that it's important to recognize, you didn't say really anything in that. You know? It's not about the act of pleasure. It's about kind of unpacking because your body hangs on to all this residual stuff. So, your brain, your body, the connection can't really even happen until you have processed some of it.
Diane Schroeder [00:17:38]:
And I don't know, and I can imagine that if there has been any type of sexual abuse or sexual trauma that is unresolved or undealt with, it's like a really big anchor to healing. You know? Sadly, there's so many women in life and men that have experienced that, that it's, you know, again, the first step is really healing your trauma and finding a professional that can help navigate you through that so that you can get on the other side of that mess, messy middle and enjoy pleasure and be okay with that.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:18:18]:
And I actually love to put, like, an important note there about seeking the right professional. There are so many of us and that sometimes of our life, we tend to seek help from unlicensed professionals or unregulated professionals because, for whatever reason, we don't trust, and this is understandable as well. We don't trust the licensed people. We don't trust the doctors when you see what is going on with the big pharma and things like that. We don't trust. And dealing with this, with your traumas, if you have especially heavy history about something, the first step before working with a coach, before waking with a naturopath, before working with anyone else, go see a license from a therapist that can help you. And then from that, build something to your well-being. I always like to remind people that a therapist helps you go from, I am feeling bad to I'm feeling okay, and a coach helps you go from I'm okay to hell, yeah.
Diane Schroeder [00:19:33]:
Thank you for saying that so beautifully, and I couldn't agree more. And we'll just leave that at that. That, it's, you've got to go back. You can't outrun it. I say this every time at therapy and trauma therapy comes up. You cannot outrun it. You have to, at some point, face it and process it and heal. And it's possible to do it. And as hard and as challenging as it is with the right professional dealing with that, then I love that. Then it's, you know, full steam ahead.
Diane Schroeder [00:20:04]:
If you can explain a little bit about tantra and tantric and the tantric principles and how that is tied to feeling sexy and, you know, just really kind of tapping into your inner goddess, I guess, is what I call it. How is that tied together, and what is it?
Fanny Leboulanger [00:20:24]:
Okay. I'm going to totally mess up with that question.
Diane Schroeder [00:20:27]:
Okay. That's fine. It was a lot in that 1 question, so, I tend to do that.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:20:31]:
It's just that the method I studied just brought the best of both worlds, but I consciously avoided the tantric major and chose female sexuality and Yoni egg because that was what was feeling the more appealing at the moment for me being more in a concrete side of things. What I do know is there's a question about all of us being divine consciousness of the goddess and making love or having any type of sexual practices and interaction helps us get more connected to this divine essence that is within all of us, and I'm going to stop there because in no way am I a tantric specialist. It definitely needs some more education there.
Diane Schroeder [00:21:21]:
Okay. That's good to know. Thank you for clarifying that. I appreciate that. So, talk a little bit more about the Yoni egg.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:21:29]:
Are you sure you want to start me on that?
Diane Schroeder [00:21:32]:
I mean, yes.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:21:35]:
It's just that I can talk a lot. You know? This conversation is going to last forever.
Diane Schroeder [00:21:40]:
Well, I don't know if we can make it last forever, but we can give a really good in-depth into the Yoni egg, and just give me all about it.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:21:49]:
Amazing. Thank you for this opportunity. What I love about the Yoni egg first is that it is a tool that can be considered as a sex toy or whatever, but it is neutral. So many of us gave zero fuck about penises or penises like toys, whether it's just that you don't like them or they are heavily charged. And so, it’s good to have something that doesn't look like it and or that feels yours. The fact that it is in a stone or in glass can bring some sense of sacredness. I would say, be aware of what you find. I always tell my coachies to buy a glass egg, like the glass that is made for sex toys because you don't know where the stones come from. Today, they are usually not extracted in countries where they care about legal work.
Diane Schroeder [00:22:47]:
Funliness. You know?
Fanny Leboulanger [00:22:49]:
And even on an ecological perspective, that's crazy. Whereas if you choose something neutral like glass, you can charge it with your intention, and you can boil it as well. Like, you want to do the best you can for your hygiene? Boil the egg.
Diane Schroeder [00:23:04]:
Yep. Make sure your toys are clean. Another PSA announcement.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:23:10]:
So, yeah. And what I love about the Yoni egg is that it's so much more versatile that what is told and what we see because around than on the internet, everyone talks about how you can use the Yoni egg as a strengthening tool for your pelvic floor. Turns out a lot of us have a weak pelvic floor, yes, but also a tight pelvic floor. And you cannot reinforce a tight pelvic floor. And even before strengthening, many of us need some tension release, and the beauty of the Yoni egg is that it can help you do both. Working as the, like, trauma release tool and or resensitization, literally, like, helping you get back some connection to x part of your body. Like, if you've never touched yourself inside of your vagina, which I could understand. It is, like, very deep and profound that if you have small hands, it can be complicated.
Diane Schroeder [00:24:12]:
You don't want to get lost in there.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:24:15]:
Yeah. And so, it can really be helpful to, like, build some sense reconnection to your tissues, to your skin. And it is helpful as in a gentle trauma release. It is helpful and when you have that, you can slowly start to strengthen your pelvic floor. In my opinion, it's really like a holistic tool. You can choose whatever you want with it. You can make it sacred or just as sexy as fuck as you want. You can make it as a liberation trauma healing tool.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:24:52]:
And if you have done some work around that, hell, yeah. Go strengthen your pelvic floor if you want. Although some people do some weight lifting with their pelvic floor, I'm not sure I understand the fun in all of that, but I'd love to talk to a person doing that, though. In my opinion, this is a tool that would benefit to a lot of people if we do things correctly, if we care about hygiene, if we discuss how we can help ourselves. And I think the most important thing as well that I forgot is that using a Yoni egg actually helps you honor your self-consent. Asking inside, do I want the egg or not? Do I want something inside or not? So many of us, when we are on your moon cycle or in our period, just insert a tampon there without questioning anything. And then you're like, I'm having pain direct sex, of course. Like, x day of the month, you're just pushing a tampon in there. And so, using the Yoni egg helps you feel and honor, do I want that? And when you don't hear a yes, you don't go forward.
Diane Schroeder [00:26:07]:
That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing. And that is one of your areas that you like to work with women, correct, is talking all about the Yoni egg and expressing and, you know, how you can get pleasure from that independently on your own. So, going back to, like, if someone comes to you or someone says, I've never even had an orgasm. I'm broken. You know, I don't believe that people are broken. I believe that you're not broken. You're not a failure.
Diane Schroeder [00:26:39]:
There are just different tools you need to get out of your current situation that you may not have access to. And I'm assuming it's the same when it comes to pleasure and an orgasm. And, again, going back to Come as You Are, that book, like, totally painted a completely different picture for me and really helped me release a lot of shame personally around feeling that I'm a failure if I don't have an orgasm or something's wrong with me. So, can you talk a little bit about, how you're not a failure. You're not broken. And maybe a little more kind of unsexy mechanics of what creates orgasms and how it really has nothing necessarily to do with being touched at all.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:27:20]:
Yeah. There is this big misconception about orgasm being just like a contraction of your pelvic floor. And what I love about that book, Come as You Are, is that she defines the orgasm is just a release of an accumulated tension, the good tension, like sexual intensity that gets to a climax and then gets released. And I really love this approach because it touches about how an orgasm can have multiple sources and have multiple flavors as well. How you can get an orgasm from your throat. You can get an orgasm from your breasts. You can get an orgasm from any part of your body, and that's what I like to tell people and have people consider when they come to me and say, hey. I'm broken.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:28:17]:
The nitty gritty about the how is literally about reconnecting to the body sensations as a whole because I have seen that most of the people, I coach around this, like, so disconnected from their whole bodies. Like, if you're disgusted by your own volva, of course, you're not going to get an orgasm. Well, you can, but, like,
Diane Schroeder [00:28:38]:
it's a lot harder.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:28:40]:
Yeah. There's a good chance if you never had orgasm before that this part of you might be a little bit disconnected. So, honoring that first, we need to reconnect all the senses. Then when we have that, we connect the sensations in our genitals and then allowing ourselves to play. Actually, release is easier said than done, especially with our crappy society around here that also manages to put, how should I put this? Like, from your orgasm organ that only belongs to you somewhat, somehow, becomes something society should have an opinion about, which is very problematic when you think about it.
Diane Schroeder [00:29:30]:
Fanny Leboulanger [00:29:32]:
It's just that allowing that, really, in my opinion, helps you get your power back. Honoring your orgasms can be so different, and they can have different flavors depending on where they come from, depending on where you are on your cycle. Just before your period, there are some parts of your body that you don't want to touch. Like, hell no. Stay away from my breast. Like, no. In my opinion, it's a virtual cycle. Like, you are reconnecting to your body and reconnecting to your orgasms and reconnecting to your power.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:30:12]:
And the more you reconnect to your power, the more you reclaim the pleasure that is yours first. And if you want to play it in a partnership, then you can.
Diane Schroeder [00:30:22]:
I love that. And so, what I'm hearing you say is it's so important, and I believe this. And, again, self-care, self-care, self-care. In self-care when you are stuck in this middle of life of everything ahead of you, everything behind you, and you just feel like, you have no capacity for yourself to take that time to, number 1, start building capacity for yourself. Start connecting with your body. And I'm a yogi. I love yoga. I think yoga has like, if everyone did more yoga, the world would be a peaceful place. If everyone even did any yoga, but that has helped me reconnect with my body for a lot of reasons.
Diane Schroeder [00:31:01]:
You have to focus. You have to be present to stay in shapes. You have to be stable. And your body does these amazing shapes that you're like, okay. I can do this. And for me, being, more athletic and bigger than, you know, in my mind, all these very petite yoga people, you know, that's not necessarily the case. So, you build that self confidence in a way that you're like, alright, and having fun. And, you know, when you're laughing and having a good time, I feel like, you're in a better space to experiment and explore.
Diane Schroeder [00:31:38]:
And I think if you allow yourself, if you can give yourself permission to start small and just be like, alright. I'm going to dance in my kitchen for 5 minutes while cooking dinner or cleaning the dishes or just putting some music on that makes you happy and, you know, kind of releases some of that tension in those walls, you can start to get a little more confident. So, it's not like you just go from straight to, man, I just listened to this great podcast. I know I can have an orgasm on myself. I'm going to take care of that right now. That's not how it works. It's a process. Correct?
Fanny Leboulanger [00:32:14]:
Hell, yeah. The 5 minutes of dancing is like an exercise that I give basically to, like, all the busy moms that don't have realistically half an hour a day to just self-pleasure.
Diane Schroeder [00:32:25]:
Right. Just dance. Put on some of that music that, you know, makes you happy and just do it. And the only way you can do it is to just tell yourself you're valuable, you're worthy, and you can do this. And it's also maybe a little bit of multitasking, but you find you do that over time, you create these tiny habits and, you know, then you get to that part of pleasure. And the other thing I love that you said is we do it ourselves first. We don't need a partner. You don't need someone to give you an orgasm or give you pleasure.
Diane Schroeder [00:33:07]:
You can do it all on your own. Now it's more fun a lot of times with someone else, but if that's not available to you, that's okay too.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:33:18]:
What I truly believe, and I love to add something to what you just said. We don't need anyone, and also, we don't need permission from anyone. So many of us, especially around self-care, are just waiting for some free time that in our nervous systems feels like permission. Like, oh, I have stopped running, so that means, I have checked my all my to dos, so, now I can take time. Turns out your to do list will never finish. So, you're not getting a permission from your to do list? I'm sorry. So, you have to take it by yourself and consider that you are worthy, and it can be really challenging at the beginning.
Diane Schroeder [00:34:06]:
Absolutely. It's turning it on its head. Right? Like, you are now saying, I'm at top of my priority list. I'm number 1 on my to do list, which is absolutely against everything that we have been taught in modern society, especially as women for millennia. Right? Like it used to be, way, way, way back, women centric, goddess centric. You know? And then it was a very equal society, everyone. And then thousands of years have gone by where we've been conditioned that we're not allowed to pleasure. We're not allowed to put ourselves on top of the list.
Diane Schroeder [00:34:40]:
And so, it's hard. And I recognize that it's hard, and it's also possible. It is possible to put yourself first. And even if it's 5 minutes or 10 minutes at the start, instead of the end of the day when you've given everything to everyone else, you just overfill your cup so people can take from you or you can give. You can choose that, but also keep more for yourself.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:35:04]:
And I always remind the moms I get in coaching about how just taking 5 minutes away from your children, just putting some music and inviting them to dance with you just so you can have, like, 5 minutes for yourself helps you be a better mom than, like, pulling on the rope, pulling, pulling, pulling until it breaks. And we have also so much work to do about releasing the guilt from the moms who are supposed to, like, give everything to their children somehow, and basically giving everything to your children means forgetting you're a basic human being who has the rights to have her needs met and, experience pleasure too.
Diane Schroeder [00:35:48]:
Yes. And what I have learned is even during my darkest time and my son and I, I was a single mom for a long time. We were in it together. But when I showed myself compassion and love and prioritized myself, I was happier, and that in turn modeled him to him, you can be happy and take care of yourself. And he was happier because our kids want us to be happy. Our kids want us, you know, they want happy mom. They don't want stressed out, tired, burned-out mom.
Diane Schroeder [00:36:23]:
We're not perfect. It always happens. Also, you're being a good role model for your children to show them, you know what? I can take care of myself, and that's okay.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:36:34]:
And I would even go further than that if I can. Because if you just put them always first and forget who you are, you're just passing on to them this sense of sacrifice. And so, when they want to do things differently, they have their shit, but they have also what they've been given about this sense of sacrifice.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:36:55]:
That is super heavy to release because society is just telling us all the time, sacrifice yourself, put yourself last on the list or whatever. So, if, as mom, we can show them that I can be happy, you can be happy, and I don't need to sacrifice myself for you, I also believe we're doing them a favor too.
Diane Schroeder [00:37:21]:
Absolutely. That is beautiful. I could not agree more. So, tell me then and tell my listeners as we get ready to kind of wrap up this amazing conversation. I think we all have in our mind what pleasure is. I have a perception of what pleasure is to me. You have 1, and it's probably a little bit different. So, how do people know when they are doing it right, I guess, or when they are like, oh, man, I just danced.
Diane Schroeder [00:37:51]:
What am I supposed to feel? How do you recognize what pleasure is and how it feels, if that makes sense.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:38:00]:
Yeah. Thank you for asking that question. I think to recognize pleasure, we could try something about recognizing we are in a different state than our usual and usually autopilot mode. So, like, we have this autopilot. We're just working, and then there is uh and there is yay. And so, just opening ourselves to the possibility of having a little less, oh and uh, and then ye and yay. So, allowing yourself to and I think that's a big misconception at the beginning because if you've been known forever or for decades, you're like, no. I have no idea what you're talking about, like, what the fuck is pleasure? I don't even know what that is.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:38:52]:
So, for people who have been, for a long time, I would say, first, don’t focus about pleasure literally. Try to define it and have a sense of what it is. It's more of a get out of autopilot first. It's like what I love about compassion. When you're, like, stuck into self-hate, you can tell yourself how you want to have compassion for yourself. That will not work. But if you're stuck in self-hate and can come towards neutrality and then curiosity and then slowly understanding and then compassion. Same goes for pleasure.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:39:36]:
If you are so disconnected from your pleasure and have no idea what it is, just honor the sensations. As I said in the beginning or in the middle of our conversation, choose an oil that smells amazing. There are tons of them. And smell. Choose an essential oil that feels good. Massage your arms, your hands, your shoulders. Notice that if at the beginning, you need to just feel something, and if you go, like, really from the beginning, it can even start from this is not unpleasant. And that's okay.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:40:14]:
When you've been stuck in unpleasant forever, just trying to find something that is not unpleasant and then not unpleasant, neutral and then neutral to nice, and then nice to pleasureful. So, in my opinion, to notice what it is, is just notice the change between your normal state.
Diane Schroeder [00:40:38]:
Mhmm. Wow. Thank you. And I would like to add onto that, give yourself grace. This isn't an easy process. And if I think of the journey to authenticity, and we're trying to uncover all this stuff, and we're dropping baggage and leaving rocks behind us that no longer serve us, it's almost like a detour. Like, the pleasure path is like this detour that looks like dark kind of trees and kind of scary because you're not really sure.
Diane Schroeder [00:41:04]:
Like, no one has a guidebook for it, and your words are so great. Like, it's okay. Just veer off the path a little bit. Go down. It's going to lead you right back to the journey to authenticity, and you're going to come out that side a lot different. So, give yourself grace and time, and that's beautiful. Fanny, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and your expertise and really talking about sex. This is the 1st episode that, you know, I've brought on a guest to talk about sex, but it's so important.
Diane Schroeder [00:41:35]:
Like, I'm like, why haven't I done this before? Like, we can have all of the other things, but, man, we should be talking about sex more. So, thank you so much. I will put all of the links to your website, your podcast, and how people can connect with you in the show notes. And, again, thank you for giving us your time.
Fanny Leboulanger [00:41:53]:
Thank you for having me, and thank you everyone for giving us your time.
Diane Schroeder [00:41:59]:
Another great conversation. Thank you for giving the valuable gift of your time and listening to The Fire Inside Her podcast. Speaking of value, one of the most common potholes we fall into on the journey to authenticity is not recognizing our value. So, I created a workbook. It's all about value. Head on over to thefireinsideher.com/value to get your free workbook that will help you remember your value. Until next time, my friend.