Welcome to the Fire Inside Her podcast, A safe space for

leadership, self-care, and community.

I'm your host Diane Schroeder, and it is my privilege to be your guide

on the journey to authenticity.

One of the greatest gifts I have found as I've gotten older is the idea of

collaboration over competition with women.

This hasn't always been the case for me.

Working in the fire service, there were not a lot of women, and I sometimes

felt that I needed to be the best and it was very competitive and a lot of that

competition I think I put in my own mind.

As I've gotten older and more confident and have done quite a bit

of personal work on my journey to authenticity, the biggest thing that

I've realized is everyone has a value.

You can't take away someone else's value by propping them up and helping

someone else's to become the better version of themselves or lending a

hand and being helpful and also helping people thrive in the same space.

Naomi and Mandy have been friends for nearly 20 years.

They've been together through the highs and lows of their

twenties, thirties and forties.

After each of them experienced serious health events, they realized how

precious life really is, and no matter how grand our picket fences are, each

of us has a story to tell and work to be done beyond those picket fences.

It was this realization that gave them the idea to launch a platform

for those who identify as women to come together as a community and to

provide a platform to lift their voices.

Naomi and Mandy believe that through authenticity, vulnerability, connection,

and community, we can thrive together.

Beyond Picket Fences started as a podcast and has grown to a business

providing resources and events for women to share their stories and connect.

What I love about this interview is that our podcast platforms are similar.

They were the first to interview me on a podcast and I have the privilege

to be their first podcast where you get to hear their stories and

how they practice self-care and the value of authenticity and community.

Without further ado, please welcome Naomi and Mandy.

Yay.

This is such an honor.

Oh, the honor and privilege is mine.

I am very grateful that you guys are taking the time and really

Mandy is a big catalyst as to why I even have a podcast right now.

When we chatted a few months ago, I was like, I think I'm

ready to start a podcast.

And she was like, we just interviewed someone that's getting ready to start her

own network and connected us, and it's been a fantastic relationship ever since.

Oh, good.

Tell us about that.

I'd like to hear a little bit more.

Do you mind?

No, not at all.

It's Authentic Connections Network with, Shawna Rodrigues and her whole

goal is to get more women podcasters because there's not very many.

And I seem to like challenges where women are the underdog and

to try to bring that number up.

So it's been a great process.

She is wonderful to work with and has really helped guide me

and mentor me along the way.

So it's been really fun.

That's amazing.

Yeah, she did a podcast with us and really drawn to her, so That's incredible.

That leadership kind of guidance that you got from her.

Fantastic.

Yes, she has been wonderful.

So to start, I'm gonna ask you guys, let's see, I think I'm gonna

ask Mandy, what does it mean to you to be part of a community?

Oh, I thought about this and I think initially I kind of had that generic

vanilla answer of a group of people with common interests and beliefs, but then I

kind of scrapped it just knowing who I am.

And although I'm not a confrontational person, I really value differences

of opinions, and I feel like jumping into groups of people with

different experiences is really a great learning experience.

So I thought about it and for me, a community means like just a group of

people who you can trust to love you genuinely despite your differences.

Oh my gosh.

And we're done.

Cause mine was understanding, accountability, trust and love.

Aw

The exact same thing, and it made me cry when I put it in

there, like having you say that.

I'm like, you're my

Yeah.

And I think honestly this question, just this, this whole podcast and journey

that Naomi and I have been on has opened that up even more because we've had

guests where I'm like, man, it is tough cuz in person they are not my person.

I would not connect with them.

But you know, you grow as a person when you find, I guess common ground and

even if somebody has differences, that just infuriate you just looking for the

reasons why they have that perspective and diving deeper is such a gift.

That's my long answer.

Thank you for sharing that.

I believe that it's the humanness, you know, once you get down the layers and

you really look at, you know, Proximity and you can share stories and have

that safe space where people feel they can let their guard down and soften.

A magic happens.

I always say through food is the best way, in my opinion, and experience

to do it, because we all gotta eat.

And it's hard, you know, when you're sitting right next to someone or

listening to someone, or they're being vulnerable and sharing part

of their story, you just really see the humanity and the humanness in.

Thank you for sharing.

And Naomi, give me a defining moment when you chose to be

authentic and what was the result?

Okay.

So this is a three hour conversation that I had with a boss slash partner,

and it was, a time in my career, just in the last three years,

honestly, it was like three years ago.

I've been doing, um, what I do for 32 years.

Didn't go to college straight outta high school.

So everything that I know is from learning from other people's

mistakes and learning from mine.

As I grow, I take pride in what I've learned, right?

Whether it's a good thing that I've learned or a bad, I don't

know until I execute it, right?

So, fast forward about three years ago.

I went into business, um, well nine years ago with a friend

and started his company for him.

And one of the things I told him was, I will never lose our

friendship over this business period.

Three years ago, we lost the friendship.

To this day, I'm still very sad about it, and

I sat with him and I told him at this table how much it hurt

me that he forgot about our

friendship and it's all business and that.

It was, I just laid it all out there.

I was like, I know this is work.

He hates emotion.

He hates anything to have to do with the people side, and I just let it go.

And for an hour and a half I just focused on what honestly

hurt my feelings as a friend.

Then we spent another hour talking about work and his treatment of the work

side, and you can see how emotionally I transition very easily from the

personal hurt and the work hurt.

I'm not crying over the work hurt.

The work hurt is business.

It's what it is, but the personal side still impacts me so deeply.

And I believe in, um, energy and chakras and it hurts me

right in my throat and my heart.

The business piece, like I'm, I get it, like I get where he is at.

And the last 30 minutes was really understanding that that

personal relationship was gone.

Work is a very important part of my life.

It's what's defined me for many, many years until I had cancer.

And so I put it out there and it didn't heal me.

It took me three more years, forced to separate as partners in a company.

Like I probably would still be with him as a partner if, you know,

we hadn't dis solved the company.

And, um, but it was great because I still look at that and I'm proud of myself even

though the outcome wasn't what I wanted.

Mm-hmm.

which was for him to hug me and say, I love you as a friend,

like, let's figure this out.

But I still look at it and I'm proud of myself.

that sounds like a really challenging time and I, I can imagine

because you're being authentic and you want a certain outcome,

and that's the role of the dice.

When you expose yourself and you let it all hang out there, you're never

quite sure how it's gonna be received, and you can't control that outcome.

And I'm not really a big fan of that.

Since I might have control issues, I prefer to know how

everything's gonna work out.

might be

Me too.

Same.

Same.

Same.

terrifying.

So the two of you are podcast hosts and you guys have been friends

for a while and work together.

Tell me how that works out for you guys.

Like what boundaries do you guys set for your community and how you do things

and how you do things differently so that doesn't have to happen again.

Wow.

Well, I'll start out by saying we started out working together 20 years ago.

I hired Mandy as one of my employees.

We were young and in our twenties.

Our friendship developed while we worked together, extended beyond

working together and have done contract work with each other for several

years, and then we went into business two and a half years ago together.

Mandy has really good boundaries in all of her relationships, and I have no problem

hiring, firing, and working with friends.

Like I can separate the business piece and Mandy can too.

Mm-hmm.

there's a quick answer, but there's a lot of meat inside

of there that we can go into.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I think, I mean, part of the reason why or how Beyond Picket

Fences came about was, I, for a long time, didn't have good boundaries.

And I ended up in a place where I was literally drowning.

I ended up in the hospital and ba basically bleeding internally.

Not sure why.

Super, super, super sick.

I was eventually diagnosed with ulcerative colitis on tons and tons

of meds, steroids for a long time.

It wasn't really getting better until I realized it was the lack of

boundaries that was causing my body to shut down and say, Hey, stop.

You need to, you need to fix this.

And it's on you.

It's nobody else,

Mm-hmm.

Having gone through that and then Naomi having gone through cancer.

We kind of faced that same kind of life or death situation, if you will, where

it's life slapping you in the face.

Telling you, Hey, you need to, to take control.

So by developing those boundaries, I think we had developed them beforehand.

So it's, it's helpful in business.

Plus, we're very different people.

I'm super introverted.

I am Unsensitive.

I'm not insensitive.

I'm not a sensitive person.

Naomi's, extroverted, she's very sensitive.

I'm very technical and creative and she is very structured, goal-oriented,

and if she puts her her mind to something, we're getting it done.

I'm totally, I suffer from analysis paralysis, , I can think about

it forever and never get it done.

So we make a really good team in a lot of, a lot of ways.

So we kind of round each other

out.

And you know, I think of it a lot like any kind of relationship.

If you cherish the person on the other end, you are going to

do what's right by that person.

Which is respect their boundaries.

And until Mandy tells me I can put my foot on the gas on something, I

know I do the pace that I need to do to make sure that she doesn't feel

like I'm like, we're gonna do this.

This is when we're gonna do it.

This is how we're gonna do it.

I respect her enough and I don't want to lose her as a

friend or as a business partner.

And we're very honest about that.

We will communicate about our frustration.

Or if I'm feeling like, Hey, you know, I don't wanna lose you as a friend or

a business partner, and this is where we're going and this is how I'm gonna

react, like, are you okay with that?

And you know, she knows in the beginning when we started

this, I went to mental therapy.

Because I was afraid of being judged and not being liked, and people

making fun of my vocabulary and the way that I use words incorrectly.

And she was very sensitive to that.

And we had feedback in the very beginning and she was like, Naomi, you're,

this is gonna hurt you, but we talked about this, like you wanna hear it?

And at the first I was like, oh, I'm a badass.

Like, oh, can we cuss?

Yeah, absolutely.

I was like,

I'm a

badass bitch.

I got this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And then I sat on it for, I dunno, a couple weeks, and we're sitting in her

husband's office and I was like, I have to let you know, that hurt my feelings.

It's not you, but we gotta talk about this.

Like, can I do this podcast thing?

And that's what I get from her is I can be vulnerable and

authentic and she doesn't judge me.

Hmm.

to be that badass bitch all the time that's coming to work.

You know what I mean?

Running companies for people, making 'em a ton of money, making sure that

all the operations are streamlined and that everybody's doing their job.

People are getting fired.

When they have to be fired.

People are getting hired when they have to be hired.

Like I can come in and be like, I wanna be sad cause that really hurt my feelings

and I want this person to like me.

And she's like, it's okay.

Like this is where it's coming from.

And that is huge that you can trust your partner in any relationship.

Well, I think one big tip I think that would be helpful is Naomi

and I meet typically twice a week.

Once, uh, is for business on Thursdays, we, you know, take care

of all the, the business side.

And then on Saturdays is when we typically record with guests.

And, the first part of every meeting we, we just connect.

Where are you at?

Where am I at?

Like, even like, how's your day going?

What's going on in your life?

You know?

So we have that time and we know it's there just to talk about

personal, how we're feeling.

so we can get it all out and then we can move on.

Because I think when you go into something, especially when it's something

like this where you're expected to be creative or you know, emotional and you

go in with unsaid words or emotions,

Mm-hmm.

You tend to close up or get angry for all the wrong reasons, right?

And so having that specific built in time, it's structured for us,

even though it's just become so natural now is extremely helpful.

I, can imagine.

And I, I appreciate that.

My mind is going, listening to all of your wisdom.

Um, it's, you know, if you come into a meeting or a vulnerable

conversation and you've got your own rocks that are weighing you

down, you're focused on those rocks.

It's like sitting on a thumb tack.

You know, you're like, oh, I'm distracted by the thumb tack, instead of just

pulling the tack out and addressing it.

So, I'm grateful for that.

I think it's really cool and it could be more, it feels like

it's a more feminine like women collaboration over a competition.

You know, you guys can have the difficult conversations, you

can focus that relationship and you can be vulnerable and share.

And Naomi, it, it sounds like and I work in a male dominated profession, so I

understand that, that have to be so strong all the time and like, just hardcore

and for me, it comes across sometimes is I'm bitchy or I'm too domineering.

And it hurts my feelings because people just don't really know me

and they don't see below that.

But then at the same time, that's the image I present at times and I

think I've softened over the years.

The older I get, the less fire I have when it comes to projecting

that, or I've just learned that I can just be me and that's okay.

Would you agree with that, that it, it helps that you guys are both

women and that you're, both committed to the communication piece of it?

I think that's easier for Naomi.

Than it doesn't come naturally for me.

Tell me more.

So I think we talked about this early on, maybe even our first podcast.

I, I grew up in a wonderful household.

But, for, so I don't know what it was, but I grew up thinking

that I think it was vulnerability.

We were talking about vulnerability.

That has always been, and it's still in the back of my mind,

vulnerability, the word crying.

Anything to do with being open is a weakness in my mind.

And so for, for me, it takes effort to get it out.

Luckily, Naomi and I have been friends for so long and I know how she's

gonna react, so it's not so hard.

But I think it, it just comes more naturally for her.

Just, I just have that block.

Well, you know what's so fascinating about that is as a child,

I'm a very emotional person, so I didn't learn to be a tough ass bitch until work.

So privately.

I actually took that extension from work and put it in my personal life

and became more work-like at home.

Instead of home being work, and I remember I was 29 years old.

I had been in the industry for 11.

And I was killing it.

I was the top performer in the company.

It was a local developer, largest local developer in the Denver metro area.

And they used me as a training property and employees were transferred to me.

And I thought, I was like, wow, you know, I'm making great money.

I was the top, you know, money was a big thing.

Title was a big thing.

And I used that to elevate myself and, you know, cause I, um

issues with believing in myself.

So I use those things to catapult what I thought about myself.

And I had a really great employee named, Ann.

And Ann, I've spoke about her on a earlier podcast and one

day I hope she listens to this.

And, she was a great employee.

I loved her structure, I loved her promptness coming to work.

She was always interactive.

She listened to direction, she executed flawlessly.

I come in one day at work and there's a note on my desk and says, Naomi,

you're a really good person, but you're a fucking bitch to work for.

And her keys were on the note and.

Oh wow.

Started Bawling.

Yeah.

Called my regional manager who, shockingly was super supportive.

He was like, Naomi.

He said, yeah, you're really good person, but you expect everybody to be you and

they're not you, everybody are themselves.

And I was like, but Joe, you transfer everybody to me

and, I'm the training part.

He goes, no, Naomi, we send 'em to you cuz we know they're gonna

quit or you're gonna fire 'em.

Like we just send you the people we don't want anymore.

And I was like, what?

Oh

What are you talking about?

And he was like, and I'm bawling.

And he goes, you need to go home.

So I started driving home and I'm like, I just wanted her to like me.

I'm like, what is it about work, Naomi, that, and it was

exactly what you said, Diane.

I had to be this on point entity that always had their stuff together,

always knew what was going on.

Always was prepared, never was wrong, didn't go in doubting herself.

And I was like, yeah, she is a bitch.

She is a bitch.

I wouldn't wanna be my friend.

And I've always been trained you don't make friends at work.

And I'm like, but you can be a good person.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

So I really had to work on being a good person and deconstructing that 11 years,

took me another 11 years and I'm still learning cuz she comes out sometimes.

And that's the humanness part, I'm sure.

I appreciate that and thank you for sharing.

Cause that's really vulnerable.

And I guess my question is, did you feel like you always had to be on point because

that was the expectation of the employer, or was that your expectation because you

were afraid that if there were any chinks in your armor that someone might see you

as less than the badass that you are?

Me, for sure.

And I remember one specific moment, another female, we were sitting in a

meeting and she was an asset manager.

And I was in real estate, so we manage apartments.

And I was the property manager and she was the asset manager,

and the owners were there as well.

And I had admitted in this meeting, I made a mistake and she pulled me aside

and said, don't ever make a mistake.

You're never going to be invited to the table again.

And she was trying to say it from woman to woman, like, be careful being vulnerable

because men don't see it the same way.

And I took, I'm a very black and white person, so the gray area is where I

had to learn to be more human-like.

Right?

A robot's, black and white

Mm-hmm.

Humans live in the gray.

And that one statement, it wasn't her fault, but it's how I took those words

in my black and white personality and who I am, that makes it easy

for me to perform because if I know one is one and two is two, and two

makes you happy, I'm gonna be a two.

Just show me the path.

I can do it.

Mm-hmm.

You know?

So it's definitely me and how I take those words and make 'em black and white.

do you think that influenced how you relate to other women in

business now as you've gone on in business several years later?

That whole scarcity mindset that, you gotta be perfect to have your seat

at the table, and there's only two seats at the table, so, you know.

Keep your game on.

Did that influence like, well, wait a minute, because I believe that we can

build a new table or a bigger table, or put as many damn seats as we want on it.

I will say that I, through Beyond Picket Fences, have been

given a completely different view of what the table looks like and that I

don't exactly what you said, I don't have to be invited to your table.

I need to be invited to the table that gives me the energy and the

community that I need to be successful.

And the community I need is that understanding,

accountability, trust, and love.

And if the table I'm going to doesn't give me that, then I don't have to be there.

There's a lot of other tables.

There's a lot of freedom in that.

Which is a great segue.

So I wanna hear more about your Beyond Picket Fences community from you two and

how, it's two and a half years, right?

That's that's a long time to have a podcast and tell me all about it and

tell us what it's about and share.

Yeah, so go

ahead, Mandi.

No, no, go.

Well, you, you started it

Well, I'll tell you how it, briefly, how it started.

I was walking at six o'clock in the morning and I wanted to write

a book and I am very insecure about my written communication.

So I called Mandy at six and I was like, if she's up and she answers the phone,

we're meant to write a book together.

And then Covid happened, couldn't write a book.

She's like, do you wanna do a podcast?

I'm like, heck no.

I don't want anybody to hear my voice.

So fast forward through the last two and a half years.

We have an international community.

We were nominated for an International Women's Podcast Award, and we

have since grown into not just storytelling, but we just published

this week, uh hundredth episode for meditations, for guided meditations.

And through the storytelling piece, have moving into retreats.

So this year will be our first Beyond Picket Fences retreat.

Partnering up with practitioners who do Reiki massage.

And Mandy just got her two certificates in yoga and nutrition, and we're

pairing all of that together.

So we're doing a retreat.

Well, that's a lot That's really exciting.

I'll ask more about the retreat later.

Thank you for sharing all that.

What do you say, Mandy?

So for our community.

We built this platform for, women or people who identify as women mostly.

We have had a few, male and male identifying guests, but for

the most part it's, it's women.

To give them a platform to tell their story because Beyond Picket Fences

represents kind of that perfect scenario that whatever the picket fence is for

each person, this perfect life that you want to get to, that you assume

once you get there, everything's gonna be grand and wonderful and,

okay, well, If you've approached your forties , you know that even if you

get there, there's a whole lot of shit beyond that picket fence to deal with.

Amen to that.

Yes.

I think we, in a society, we don't share that and so we look at

each other and we're like, well, they, they have it all and their life is

wonderful, and why can't I just get there?

I have everything.

Why does life feel like this?

Or why am I still experiencing what I'm experiencing when everybody else who seems

to get there has this wonderful life?

What we realized is, Life is just ups and downs for everyone.

And so we wanted to give that platform to be vocal about it just so we can create

a community where we can just be real and vulnerable and say, Hey, yes, life

has these wonderful, wonderful hills.

And then you know, we'll all have these valleys and let's

just be in them together.

So yeah, that's kind of what we, we've created.

Our guests have all different stories, all different walks of life.

Some of them have shared, their business triumphs, um, have gone through some

horrific, horrific, life events.

In the end we're all real and we're all here and we're alive and we're

people, you know, just connecting.

And so that, that's kind of the community we've created and it's been extraordinary.

I would agree.

And , I love listening to your show because I love listening

to the genuine stories.

And you guys are great hosts.

You let the guests talk and share their story, and it's, it's so genuine

and natural, it doesn't seem forced.

It's, well, it's authentic.

Thank you

the guests are typically extremely nervous.

They are just as scared as the prior guest in telling their story.

And you know, you just want everybody to know it's normal.

And afterwards, not one person has said this was a horrible experience.

Like, you know what, this was great.

And they love it, and they got it out there, and they can't wait for

their story to help just one person.

I think it's not often that we get the, the time and

the attention to tell our story.

I mean, unless you're, you know, with a therapist or something like that.

But, to, to be open and real and, um, to tell your story and know by doing so

in a public forum, you can potentially help somebody else is just so freeing.

Mm-hmm.

And it's the connection and I agree.

Have been on your show as a guest and you know, just getting it out is,

there's something freeing to that to just get it out and not keep it inside.

And then you realize, like you said, everyone has a story to share and

everyone's really nervous to share their story, but when you hear it, you're

like, oh man, I'm not the only one.

Or you know,

they have the same.

Yeah.

And it's the, again, the humanness.

And in today's world with.

Social media and you know, social media perfect everything.

And now I, I'm sure you guys can relate I look at it differently.

I'm like, that's not real.

Mm.

There's, there's gotta be more to it, you know, that

genuine happiness does exist.

I don't dispute that.

We just don't give enough light to the work it takes to get

there, or the bumps along the way.

The potholes, we all fall into.

Mm-hmm.

You know, I had, um, I was out the other night and there was a

gal who listened to our podcast and she goes, Naomi, she said, all of

your stories have a happy ending.

Why doesn't anybody ever tell a story where they're right

in the middle of the shit?

And I said, I'm gonna tell you, we struggle with that because, um, people.

Aren't ready to tell their story because they're not sure if other

people truly want to hear the shit.

Everybody wants that happy ending, right?

When you're hearing a story, if the movie ends and everybody dies and

there's no winner and nobody is standing at the top of the mountain

with the sun illuminating him, like everybody wants that happy ending.

And she said, what about those of us who are still in it?

So that we know that there's, and I was like, that is such a profound

question.

It is.

I wonder if, and I don't know what you told her, but I wonder.

My answer I think would be to give you hope that t he

mess, the messy middle, right?

Everyone talks about the messy middle, Brene Brown.

You know, Glennon Doyle, like you gotta go through the mess.

You can go around it for a while, you can try it, outrun it.

You can run far away.

But

Mm-hmm.

whatever the shadow of the mess is, is gonna catch you at some point.

And if you're in the middle of it, and to hear that.

Oh my gosh, so far everyone gets through it.

I think that's the answer.

That's the hope that, yes, continue to put one foot in front of the other.

And you know, it might still be bumpy and no one can tell how long it'll take,

but it is possible to get through it.

What do you think?

When you were saying that, Naomi, I was unaware of your conversation,

but we did have a guest and probably more than one if we think about it.

Who was, is, is suffering, an eating disorder.

And she is in the middle of it.

And she was very open about that.

You know, I'm in treatment.

She said, you know, she, she's not healed, if you will.

And I think a lot of times it's like seeing the grass is greener.

Kind of what we were saying before.

Like you look at other people and you think, oh, life is good for them.

Life is good for them.

My life isn't that great, but they probably still are doing the work.

but when, when you listen to them, you're not seeing that because you're

focusing on yourself, your own story.

And so we have had, I, I, a handful of guests who are still doing the work.

That's a good point, Mandy.

I didn't even think about that.

And what's fascinating, it took us over a year and a half to find

a guest with an eating disorder because they're all right in the

middle of it

well, and it never goes

away.

Just like, Just like, you know, any, any form of addiction.

It's always there.

Well, and so is needing to do the work, right?

The work never ends either.

I will always be doing the work in some form or fashion.

In fact, last week I was talking to my therapist and he asked, you know, this

question, and I'm like, God damn it.

Can I just get the certificate that says you've done the work?

Oh, I read your email and I love that.

I'm like, I am so tired of

I just wanna move on to the next one.

that I have to deal with.

Just tell me I'm good.

And he is like, well, I can, but is that true?

And I'm like, God.

Seriously, just, it never ends.

And maybe that's the message, right?

Like even happy and being in a good space.

Like there's still stuff that's gonna bubble up because we're still human.

And while it's beautiful to grow older and get into midlife and you

know, That's a lot of years to unpack stuff and then, you know, to try

to learn from it and move forward.

So yeah, the work just really never ends.

And maybe that's the message that we don't share enough, right?

Like, oh, I'm better, but wait, I still see my therapist every four to six

weeks and I still have those check-ins.

Yeah.

Well,

actually really good.

and to be honest, we do have, we've had multiple guests where we

just, like we are right now, we've signed on and they have broken down

and they said, today is not the day.

And they're in the work.

And sometimes when you're doing the work and it's so hard,

it's just not the day to share.

Right.

of course, you're not gonna hear that

No.

Well, and you know, it's also really hard to tell your story sometimes

without Retriggering, until you've done the work so that you can share your

story from a place that makes sense.

I, I think when I think of the times that I've been in my darkest spaces,

I don't know that I could have really talked about it, that were,

would've made much sense for anyone because I just wanted it to stop.

I felt like I was on a merry-go-round and I couldn't put

my foot down to get off of it.

And it was really hard to articulate it in the moment

when you're in the middle of it.

Mm-hmm.

As I think about all of this, I think about the saying, peeling the onion.

This is like peeling the human right.

You're peeling the layers off, and then as you peel one layer, it exposes

the next layer and exposes, and when you're done, you've passed on.

Because there's so many life experiences that are gonna, like you just said,

trigger something from years and years ago that until that happened, it wasn't

there in front of you to work on.

Right, which is why the work never ends.

So you guys, cause you guys hear a lot of these powerful stories, how

do you, and not just through what you hear, but just in general, how

do you guys take care of yourselves?

What does self-care look like for you to make sure that you maintain your

boundaries, that you keep softening and you know, remain genuine, authentic?

What do you guys do to take care of yourselves?

I have very structured and intentional self-care, routine, because

of what I went through and because self-care, um, and boundaries were

such a huge part of my healing, that part of my story, I have to continue

that so I don't regress into, more flares and back in the hospital.

So for me it's I wake early, I wake at the same time every day.

I do a gratitude journal.

It's me time and then I do yoga every day, so I, and I go to yoga.

So for me, it's very easy to shut myself and to be alone,

um, and to be away from people.

And I'm totally fine with that, but I know that that's not healthy for me.

So I have a very specific studio that I go to.

Diane goes as well, and it's an amazing, amazing community of people who just give

me good, good vibes and moving my body.

And so I've got yoga and nutrition was a huge part of that.

I such a huge part that I decided to, learn more and become a

nutrition coach so I can help other people through their, ailments.

And then most recently, um, quitting drinking so that I can kind of

round it all out and just be a more well-rounded, healthy person.

And sleep better.

Sleep, I think is the most important part of self-care and the most overlooked.

That's when our body does most of its healing and processing.

And I think that's where as people in our society and as responsible adults,

we tend to fail and, and neglect.

I agree with that.

Sleep 100%.

I've tried so hard even with shift work to focus on sleep, that when I don't get an

adequate amount of sleep, I'm a hot mess.

And everything else seems to fall apart when I'm tired.

It's really no different than a child.

It's not, we need it

Yes.

Naomi, what about you?

Uh, it's so, it's so funny.

So when Mandy said earlier in this episode that we're completely

different, we are, so my self care is not being around people because I.

Always am around people.

I love being around people and I tend to really tap into their energy

and I wanna fix everything with that person if they need fixed.

Cause you know, I think that people need me.

It's a whole nother therapy thing anyway.

So, my self-care is actually in the morning, I sleep really well.

I am not one to wake up or one that needs to have any

assistance in getting to sleep.

I'm to sleep in seconds and I sleep very sound until I wake up in the morning.

So sleep is okay.

Where I wanna do is I immediately wanna call somebody in the morning.

I wanna talk to somebody.

I wish everybody was awake so that I could purge all my thoughts that I thought

about overnight while I'm sleeping.

And I wanna get ready to go for the day.

So I have to really just be like, okay, I put on my Zen music,

it plays throughout the house.

I go work out by myself down in the basement.

We have a fitness center that my husband built.

And from there then I go in our zen room and I spend time with

myself, whatever that means.

I could read a book, I could meditate.

I have a specific meditation routine that I do to clear my chakras.

I will walk around the house just kind of looking out the windows

and just spend time by myself.

My husband likes to wake up late.

We have adult children.

We have no kids in the house.

We haven't had kids for 10 years.

I know it's not nice.

Wow,

um, so we spent our forties without any children in the

house, and that's my self care.

With that though, I have to have people contact.

So once eight or nine hits.

I've already been up for four hours.

I have to have contact with people.

So that has to typically be somebody who I have a really

good energetic connection with.

If I start out with somebody who I know energetically just gets me all riled

up right away, it's really challenging to come outta that self-care into that.

So I have to be really careful who I have my meetings with in the morning,

who I'm connecting with in the morning.

I won't read text messages I don't open my phone.

I have to be really careful, the first text message that I reply to.

So I have about three or four people that I would make contact in the morning

just to make sure that that energy stays consistent with people and then

I can tap into kind of the energies that don't align with me all the time.

I love that awareness.

I feel like I'm a hybrid between both of you with self-care.

I'm not really a big fan of people, but I agree.

Going to the yoga studio is just a very affirming, gets my energy going and

at the same time, if I engage with the wrong person, it just ruins my entire

day, , and it just sets it off in a funk.

and self-care is so important.

It just, it's, and I think we underestimate the power of it or

really what self-care is and making sure that we have that capacity for

just ourselves and to just make sure we're taking care of us first.

Tell me how people can find you, I'll put it all in the show notes of course.

Why aside from the amazing meditations and the award nominations and the great

article in the magazine that just came out, and all the really cool publicity you

guys are getting and picking up, so what, what makes Beyond Picket Fences special?

Thanks.

Well, what makes it special truly is that this is a platform that

there's no judgment, none, and we wanna hear all perspectives.

As Mandi said earlier, we are better because of the people that we listen to.

And this is a platform for you to reach out to people who may not

think like you and may not have had your same life experiences.

And you can also listen if you wanna be a guest for a guest.

And if you wanna listen, you can listen to other people's life

experiences and help you grow your circle cuz you may not have friends

or family that have experienced that.

And this gives you that opportunity that education, in somebody else's life

experience to help you and you could easily, check us out on bpfences.com so

it's short for beyond picket fences.com.

And on that website we have a homepage.

We have a blog page.

Mandi does blogs for us.

And if you're ever interested in writing, for us, you can email us

and, we will meet you and talk about what blogs and stuff, and we'll

post them on our website for you.

Podcasts are all on there.

We also have a shop on our website where you can shop for Beyond

Picket fences, merch on there.

We also have a resources page.

So if you have a service that you feel our community would benefit from for free.

We can work out adding you to our website.

We do that once to twice a year and update our website and we can look

at adding your services as long as they meet our brand onto our website.

Awesome.

And do you have a date for the retreat or is there just more

information to come for that?

So we don't have a solid date.

We are aiming for the last two weeks of June, so it'll be probably a three

to four day retreat, all female.

I believe we'll have the capacity for 12 guests.

It would be like a Thursday through a Sunday or a Thursday through

a Monday or something like that.

So June.

We should have more detail, um, beginning of March.

That is really exciting.

The Denver Metro, more of the foothills area of Colorado.

Perfect.

That is so exciting.

Oh, I can't wait for that.

And we didn't really ask the question and I'm curious now cause I haven't been

able to stop thinking about it since we talked pre-show about Naomi not knowing

who her leadership crush is and, so, Before we wrap up, I, I just, I feel like

we need to unpack that a little bit and talk about the leadership crush and how

you can't think of one and maybe Mandi, if you wanna share your leadership crush.

I have so many and I'm happy to share mine.

So I have a ton.

One of your other questions that you had sent us was what

book have you read recently?

And I'm like, a self-help junkie,

Mm-hmm.

..Mm-hmm.

but my current leadership crush is Mel Robbins.

I think she was the biggest, motivational speaker for the last couple years.

Um, but now she has a podcast and like, I cannot.

Like every Wednesday morning hers comes out too.

Ours comes out on Wednesday as well, but like that's the first thing I list.

I just eat her up, like everything she says.

I'm like, yes, yes, Mel.

Like, we're like best friends now.

So she's mine.

Awesome.

All right.

Um, mine, my longtime leadership crush is Brene Brown, always.

Um, she was probably my first leadership crush ever.

And , I also really like listening to Adam Grant,

uh, recently I've, you know, read, listened to his books

and, you know, I just like his different perspective on things.

So those are my two, current ones.

So what's fascinating, I didn't go to famous people

at all with this question.

I went through all the people.

she's been in leadership forever,

Mm-hmm.

I literally went through all the people that I've

worked for, and I have mentors.

And I took Crush as, that's so funny.

So I took crush as somebody that, not that.

So I think of leadership as somebody who I aspire to be, like somebody who

would make me better, who rounds me off.

Right.

So Crush, I was like, I don't have a crush.

Like.

I'm not like in love with any, but I have mentors, people who

I am like, you are so badass.

If I could have a little piece of you like replicate that, I would be so honored.

Right?

But I took it with the people that I have worked for.

Didn't even take anybody famous.

That's totally okay.

There's no parameters on

Isn't that so fascinating?

I wonder if when you say that question, if most people go famous people

instead of people they've worked for.

It's so funny.

I have asked it one other time, and it was a hybrid answer.

She was like, yes.

There's always, you know, the famous people I also wanna have dinner with,

maybe someday in my mind were besties and then, the real world people

that have influenced careers and you know who she is in those steps.

And so yes,

That's funny.

I couldn't do it cuz I couldn't wrap myself around doing famous.

But I will tell you though, the leader that has impacted my life the most.

And the one that if she wasn't in my life and she, I never worked for her, I would

be who I am today as a softer, kinder, more thoughtful leader, is a woman named

Karen Gladney, who is, um, a phenomenal local, female leader here in Denver.

So if I have to have a crush, it'd be on her.

That would be it.

Well, thank you.

And then the last question before we end our awesome chat

is, what do you guys think?

Is one or two things that you could apply or tell someone who's listening to apply

to help them with their authenticity?

Like what are a couple things that you could do every day just

to be a little more authentic?

For example, I always say, a few affirmations before I get out of bed in

the morning in my head to myself, like , You know, bright, bold, and beautiful.

And I've got today, and it may sound cheesy, but that's what I do

to be like, I'm authentically me.

I feel good.

Now I can keep going.

I would say one is if somebody frustrated you the day before or made

you sad, are you willing to tell them?

If not, write it down.

Put it on paper, and you don't get to throw it away until

you're able to tell them.

And if you can never throw it away, you've gotta work on it.

That's awesome.

Mandy, what do you think?

I've got two.

One is something I've been practicing over the last couple

years, and I call it my thanks.

I know.

So when you are complimented in your head, If you don't feel comfortable saying this

out loud, your only response is, "Thanks.

I know."

even if it's in your head.

And so while that may sound egotistical the practice of it, when you're

constantly doing it, It really grows your, your self image and your confidence.

And so eventually when somebody is like, wow, you're super strong

today, or You look beautiful today.

You're like, thanks, I know.

You actually you're like, yeah, I, I am.

Like, I know.

Thanks.

That's one.

And then the other one is to listen.

So whenever you're talking to somebody, I think a lot of times

you want to to fix or interject with your own story, your opinion, and I

would say to stop and listen because everybody just wants to be heard.

They don't always need you to say anything.

Just stop and listen.

Very wise words.

Listen is, our word for this year for Josh and I, my partner.

That's what we picked.

So that we do, we focus on listening more to each other.

Wise words.

Thanks so much.

Thank you for taking time out of your busy day to listen to this episode.

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Go ahead and follow wherever you're listening to this podcast so you

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Until next time.

Remember, you are a badass and you are not alone.