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Welcome to The Fire Inside Her, the podcast where we explore the incredible stories of individuals who have discovered their inner fire on their journey to authenticity. I'm your host, Diane Schroeder, and I am so grateful that you are here. Hey, friends. Do you remember the group Salt N Pepa? I know. That's really an age check. I had the privilege of seeing them about 5 or 6 years ago, and they still have it. Other questions you may have that you'd wanna ask me or a Question about a guest that was on the show? Awesome. Go ahead and head on over to the Fire inside Her forward slash questions, and your question could be read on a solo episode.

Okay. Back to Salt N Pepa. When I was preparing for this intro to talk about today's show, the song that kept going through my head was Let's Talk About Sex. It's a fantastic song. And my guest, Ann Bell, and I talk about sex through the lens of being in middle life. Yes. Sex is different in my forties than it was in my thirties. My body is different.

Just as a side note, Ann is not a certified doctor. I clearly am not a certified doctor. So if you have any medical questions, Be sure that you reach out to a medical professional, especially when it comes to what medications and supplements and hormones, if any, should be taking. Alright. Onto the show. Everyone listening right now, this is going to be such an exciting and passionate conversation about sex, specifically about sex for women in the middle of life. And with us today is Ann Bell, who is a delightful love and sex coach who is currently combining her passion of massage therapy and being a sex coach together to talk all things that we probably don't talk enough about. Ann, welcome.

It's so nice to have you here.

Thank you, Diane. It's a pleasure to be here. Yay.

I always start each episode with a random icebreaker question that usually catches my guests off guard. So my icebreaker question for you is, What is your favorite childhood dish for food?

Grilled cheese and tomato soup. Timeless. It's timeless.

Now do you do anything fun with the grilled cheese, or are you straight, like, American cheese?

Sometimes, no American cheese. Sometimes I will dip it in the tomato soup.

Yes. Do you have a particular bread that you like?

I'll do it on rye. If I'm going to the Diane, The, you know, you can never usually, you can never fail at a grilled cheese Diane, you know, getting 1 at a diner. They're, like, usually The masters, Stirs, but then I'll get it with French fries at the Diane. And then I'll, yeah, American cheese with rye bread.

That sounds delicious. I got crazy experimenting with grilled cheese not too long ago, and I came up with, like, a sourdough bread and a Gouda cheese with bacon and Granny Smith apples and some grilled onions. It was a bougie grilled cheese, but it was Delicious. Couldn't have it with soup because it didn't, you know, flow, but my little man loves grilled cheese. It's his favorite. So we get to have it quite often. Perfect. Now that we've got the food conversation out of the way, I am curious to just jump right in.

And my first question with you is, What happens to women's bodies when we start hitting perimenopause, menopause, and why does that impact our libido and our sex life. And is it purely there's a lot of questions here. I apologize. Is it purely, like, our hormones, or are there external factors that impact us as well.

All of it. All of it is happening. So let me define. I call it the pause, you know, the umbrella. And underneath it is perimeno and post. Pause menopause. Okay? We just refer to it as menopause. That's what we know.

But menopause perimenopause can start at age Fire, as young as Fire, If you haven't gone into, an unnatural menopause from either medical treatments or early you know, it can go even earlier for some. But in general, it can start at 35, and it'll last anywhere from 7 to 12 years. And then when your periods are start to fluctuate, And then here comes when you've gone 1 entire year without a period, you are menopause. And, technically, menopause is one day, then you're postmenopausal.

Well, that's kinda disappointing, all The work for 7 to of yours for one day. It's like graduating high school. That's it?

It causes breast cancer. Untrue. Untrue. Untrue. In fact, a byproduct of that 20 year study is the women that were on hormones had a 20% reduction in breast cancer. So there's a health benefit. Yes. There's a health benefit to be on hormones.

More they were prescribed other things for their symptoms, which they should have had hormone replacement therapy. The symptoms are so wide and varied. It is unfucking believable. You think you're losing your mind. We just think, you know, menopause, marijuana is hot flashes, hot flashes and night sweats, and there's so much more. There is menopause will actually literally change your brain chemistry. So you feel like you're losing your mind, You're depressed. You're anxious.

Your cognitive function is like, where'd I go? What happened to me? That's what happened to me. I started at 47 when I became aware, kinda sailed through a little bit ahead. I thought my air conditioner was broken Because I was having night sweats, my girlfriend laughed at me. You're perimenopause. You know, I was all done. That is a later 51 is the average age. And I'm like, okay, and I kinda sailed through until Last year, then things started to go off the rails for me. I started to get depressed.

I star I had COVID. I had postmenopausal bleeding, so they thought that was cancer. I, you know, did all the biopsy things. Okay. They don't know why. I'm fine. And then I hurt my leg, and I was diagnosed with a hereditary blood clotting disorder in July. And I was Fighting to get on hormone replacement therapy beforehand.

And I said, oh, here's my champ. I'm done. I'm not gonna be able to get on it. And the body aches and pains. I just knew the estrogen was leaving my body. I said to my GP, I said to her, I feel like the estrogen is gone. She says, well, that's what happens. I said to her, but there's a solution.

You know? I'm 62. I she says, well, you can only be on The replacement till 65. I said, doctor, that is no longer true. I've said doctor, longer true. More times in the last 3 months to doctors. And I go in with my studies and my facts. They are just so uneducated, and I was like, she doesn't know. I had to go 2 there's a company online of women that were having trouble themselves getting their hormones.

These 2 women created this company. It's called Alloy, malloy.com. And I filled out the questionnaire, and I have a doctor who is they're all menopausal doctors, and she said, I will write the script for you. You're in the guidelines. We have studies on factor 5. We don't have a month. Factor 8, which I have. She says, I can't see it's that big difference, but I'd like your hematologist on board.

Do you know that man wouldn't even talk to her? He was just like, no. No. No. I say, doctor, why are you making this choice? Your age and your weight. And I said to him, doctor? I'm like, oh, here we fucking go again. I said, doctor, my age is not a factor. I'm within 10 years of my menopause, and under 60, you can have hormone replacement therapy as long as the benefits outweigh the risks. And I said to him, so that's off the table.

I'm within the my weight, I can do something about that. And I said to him, I'm gonna do it anyways, though. And he goes, okay. So as long as you know when you call me from the hospital because you threw a pulmonary embolism, you know why. I'm like, Thank you, doctor. And I've been on them almost 3 months, and I can physically feel the change. I can feel myself coming back. I can feel that bubbly me, myself.

I feel like I wanna live life again. I feel like I wanna have sex. I feel juicy again, you know, but I'm also on there's vaginal estrogen. There's vaginal moisturizers. You know, at this age, you gotta use lubrication. At any age, use lubrication, and sex becomes different, though, at middle age. What you looked for sexually, it's different now. Most of us probably when we're younger had spontaneous desire, Usually.

You know, you looked at it, saw, I wanna fuck it. Let's go for it. Now things get in the way. We have a lot of stressors. You're a wife. You're a mother. You're you have a job. You're you know, mentally, you're all over the place, and you wonder why you can't have sex because you don't give 5 minutes to let that percolate because, you know, the mind is the biggest sex organ.

So you gotta get your mind on board, but if you're so focused on dinner and chores and work, and where do you fit in sex? You know? So there's a lot of components here that have to be figured out, and you wanna I think at middle age, you're You you have to have sexual intelligence, which means you and your partner are different. You know, you've had babies. You got age. You've got complaints physically. You have to adapt a little bit. You have to say, oh, but I can't have that type of sex anymore, but I'm willing to try something different and new and experiment. And maybe it's not about the orgasm. I'm not saying, you know, not to have orgasms, But sometimes it's not about the orgasm.

It's about connection. It's intimacy. It's playfulness. And, you know, the orgasm will happen or it won't happen. And there's also other sex besides penis and vagina sex. Let's get over this. You know, Penis and vagina sex lasts 5.7 minutes. Women take anywhere from 20 to 30 minutes to warm up.

Who's having all The great penis and vagina sex?

Oh my. Okay. Thank you so much For explaining all of that in a very thorough and efficient way. Back up just a little bit. I read somewhere that it's more likely that if a woman is going through premenopause and goes to her doctor with symptoms, They're more likely to prescribe her with an antidepressant than have the discussion on hormone replacement therapy. And I will be honest, I'm not well educated enough to have, you know, any more than that, but The statement. But what you said totally makes sense, And I'm thinking of my own life where I'm at. And the conversation I had with my OB back in May was She's like, I am not against hormone replacement therapy.

I think it's a great idea, and here's why, and listed all the reasons why. And, you know, I'm of that generation where I've been told for the last 20 years, it's bad. It's bad. It's bad. And she's a very young doctor that was like, nope. It's not bad, and here's why you need it. So Thank you for sharing that.

You're lucky. You're very lucky to have a progressive doctor.

Absolutely. Well and, you know, she She's had some medical challenges that kind of forced her into a different perspective, and so I really appreciate that and her humility. I think what's really important from everything The you've shared as far as hormones and, you know, our age is that we have as women, as humans, an innate knowing and our intuition. And at Some level, it's The advocating for ourselves that, you know, we're programmed while The doctor went to medical And this doctor has all the answers because it's a doctor. And what do I know? That's why I go to the doctor. But we do know, and it's so important to listen to that and advocate for yourself.

I went through this myself because I have this blood clotting disorder, And hormone replacement therapy is can exacerbate it, but I had my blood clotting Schroeder diagnosed before I went on hormone replacement therapy. And I'm like, fuck it. If I'm gonna make spontaneous quads, You can bet I'm gonna die happy doing it. You can bet I am gonna enjoy this part of my life If I've got this ticking time bomb inside of me, you can bet I'm gonna take the risk and go. But it's it goes against Everything you just said, the doctors, and I'm I was very nervous. I'm like, I had to stand up to this man. I had to stand up to my GP. Thank god I had my gynecologist who was saying, alright it.

I think we're good. You're within all the guidelines. I follow the facts and she gave me the reassurance. And she said to me, this is not shared decision making. She says by him making those comments, she says, I feel very bad that you're having this experience, but I am willing to write it Because I believe you'll be Fire, and I had to go with I just knew hormone replacement therapy was gonna be Part of my answer. Is it the entire answer? No. But I'm gonna tell you, it's a big, big component. And, You know, I wanted the health benefits down the Schroeder.

30% decrease in heart disease, dementia, colon cancer, Breast cancer, Her fractures. I mean, come on. You we have over 400 estrogen receptors in our body, And this is exactly what happens is the estrogen is leaving our body. The estrogen, the progesterone, and the testosterone. And there's more studies for us, but not a lot on testosterone. But when if you have a uterus, you have to take a progesterone, which will help you sleep. And I'm like, my god. You know, sleep is so precious because you're not sleeping.

You know, it's really A big, big change. So for younger women, educate yourself, get on board, and exercise. You're not gonna be able to like, I can't exercise like I did younger. My body doesn't want any of that. Diet? I can't eat what I would normally eat. My body doesn't want any of that. There's supplements. You know, it's hormone replacement therapy, supplementation, exercise, sleep, And, oh my god, the 5th my mind.

The 5th one just later will come back to me. But there's 5 different components to this. It's not just The thing.

It never is. Right? That's life. It's not just The thing. It's always it's always a combination.

I was so mentally fatigued. I didn't have the will to lose weight. I didn't have the ambition. I didn't I couldn't even mentally get on board To start the process of losing weight because it just I just didn't feel like myself. I had this fucking attitude. I'm like, you know what? Maybe it's my time. Maybe this is maybe this is all there is for me. Maybe this is what this is.

And then once I got on hormone replacement therapy, I'm like, Oh. Oh. Oh. No. No. It's exactly how I feel. And my next question for my doctor is gonna be testosterone. You know, do I need testosterone? Because that's kinda like the sex hormone.

You know? That's the libido thing. You know, mentally, I now I can wrap my head mentally around a few things once you feel balanced.

So then let's unpack a little bit more about sex. And I resonate very much when you Say, you know, there's so many things. I say it's the hormone soup at my house because my hormones all are all over the place. My 11 year old Sun, his hormones are all over the place, and you just never know what you get when you walk in the door between all of us, even though trying to take Steps to Control What We Can Control. How if you can share with my listeners, how does that look after you take the Hollywood out of sex. I'll just put it like that. Like, it's gonna be this magnificent orgasmic experience every time. How does the real world version of sex in your forties and fifties and sixties, what does that really look like?

I think it depends on where you're at. For me, you know, I'm single. So I was primarily single forties. And forties, I fucked like a jackrabbit. I was I said to my therapist I said to her, I'm a little nervous. I'm drinking. I'm The. What's going on? And she says I was you know, she says, you wanna know? I'm like, yeah.

I wanna know. I was going through my teenage rebellion years because I did not do it as a teenager, and you cannot Skip phases of development. So for me, that was like my teenager years. I had a lot of fun. My fifties got a little Slower where it was like, oh, you know, I'm having fun, but I want a different type of sex. I didn't want that Hot, heavy, you know, rabbit sex. So you you do. You naturally, you know, start listening to yourself.

What's your connection with your partner because that's the other thing. Women stop having sex in menopause because they don't feel well. They don't have a sex drive. Sex is painful. Sex should never be painful, ladies, and people with vulvas. Please see the doctor. Seek your solutions or it's their partner. Lack of partner or their partner is not good in bed or never has been, And they're like, I've tried.

I don't wanna do this anymore. But this is where you have to adapt as you get Schroeder. And, again, what you said, listen to yourself. What is it we can do, not what we can't do? What is it that I wanna, you know, explore on a different level? And I think The, We don't talk enough with our partners about sex. People are so afraid.

It's very vulnerable to open yourself up like The. I think for a lot of reasons, whether it be expectations, you know, The there's this root of if you're a People pleaser, you don't wanna let anyone down, or this unrealistic expectation of, you know, what we think We assume that marriage is supposed to be like and sex is supposed to be like Diane and not really expressing from the the Females are desires and feeling a lot of shame around The. Because if we are to express what we want and it's, you know, outside of quote, unquote normal. We don't wanna be judged or considered a freak or, you know, all these things. So there's So many layers of even having that conversation, I think. If you don't have a solid relationship with your partner To begin with, where things are kinda rocky, going there is really scary on top of vulnerable because now you're adding more you know, and you don't want your partner to be frustrated, so I I find it it is hard to talk about. And I wonder if you have any, like, conversation starters. Like, how do you even have that conversation with your partner? Like, Oh, by the way, I wanna talk about sex and make it The safe, productive conversation.

I want more. You want less. Why don't we have it all the time? Why don't we have it at all? You know, that type of conversation.

Well, you're gonna have mismatched libidos. That just happens in relationships. I think for that problem is just acknowledging, you know, the one with a higher libido, you know, maybe has to take care of themselves self pleasuring a little bit more. The one with the lower libido. You know, there's no need to feel shame, but you can also tap into why is that happening. If you're not making the space for your mind to breathe and have an eroticness about yourself and allow the Fantasy and be with your partner. What did that feel like? What did previous encounters feel like? You know, you kinda have to let yourself Entertain that thought process. You know, it's a warm up.

It's a, you know, it's a warm up to get you where you wanna go. I guess I was lucky because I got really freaky men. They were just really you know, do you wanna try this? I'm like, yeah. Let's try this. You have to go back a little bit. You know, I have a free Love Your Libido book on my website, which basically goes back to what were your childhood beliefs? What did your parents model? What were your religious beliefs? What did you learn in school? How did you get The? What was your message as a young girl? Were you supposed to be prim and Schroeder, but also were you A sexual being and you had to shut that off, or did you never Fire allowed to open that up because that's what girls didn't do at the time? So you have to go back and really what is that message that I got? What's the story I'm telling myself? And can I tell myself a new story? Can I allow myself a new story to be told?

Yes. You can if you're willing to. Correct? You can Yes. Absolutely rewrite that narrative.

And it is hard talking to your partner. I understand that. But I think for men, they connect through sex. Women connect through emotion. So I think most men are open to having Station. And this is a great question for both partners to ask of one another and think about, what does sex mean for you?

And I would assume that you would want to ask that question probably more often than not because the meaning of sex can change throughout your relationship and throughout your life. Like, you know, having sex to procreate is very different than having sex for just pleasure.

Because we're we're not told that pleasure is a factor. We're told to go have babies.

Right.

And then if you've had A traumatic birth experience or an unwelcomed pregnancy, that doesn't make sex desirable for you. If you've got trauma and you've got fear of becoming pregnant, sex in your mind leads to only one thing. There's No Pleasure Fire You. So that needs to be addressed up front. How can that be solved first if you've had these experiences so that you can have more pleasure in your life. And when you're ready to talk to your mate, you know, make sure you have their don't do it in the bedroom.

Or right before bed.

Yeah. Don't do that. You know? Make sure you have your mate's attention. Ask him when he has some time to talk with you. You know, you'd like to discuss, You know, your sex life and what could we explore and do better? And ask him what Time is he free for that conversation because men are very singular focused. They can only focus on 1 thing at a time. So and that's just how they're wired. It doesn't make them wrong or right or bad or good.

It's just how they're wired. An excellent book I read was The Queen's Code, Diane it in a story format. And once you wonder, I was like, oh, this is what they do. They are gonna get their need. They don't understand why we don't get our needs met, where women will wait to go to the bathroom. Women will wait to eat. Women will wait and wait and wait. They think that's silly.

They're like, if I'm hungry, I'm gonna eat. If I have to go to the bathroom, I'm going to the bathroom. Why don't you do those things? Because that's how a woman is wired. She's doing a lot of other things. So get their attention and then sit and ask the question. What does sex mean for you? See what each of you say and what would you like to explore. I'm thinking and you can say it. You know what? This is a very vulnerable conversation for me.

I would appreciate if we could just be calm and considerate of one another. Set the parameters in the beginning. You know, I'm feeling very vulnerable about this topic. I do want to have the conversation with you If you will help me feel safe, if you're open minded for me, I would have loved that if we could have this type of conversation.

Oh, that's a wonderful way to start the conversation. That's great if you're in a committed relationship. How does it look for my single listeners that are in a different phase or not in a committed partnership, but still wanna have fun. I always think of, Samantha from Sex and the City. What about all my Samantha's out there?

She's bold.

She is.

I'm a little like Samantha, so that's why I get those type of men because I am open. I'm willing to have the conversation. I will start the conversation sometimes. It'll be during the conversation. Jen, you know, one time I was with a guy and we got talking, I don't know, about water sports. Water sports is urinating on each other. They call it water sports. And he and we were just talking about it.

He goes, oh my god. That sounds fun. Do you wanna try that? I'm like, yeah. Let's go try that. And then in the shower, we went, and we just had fun. You know? But it was just Spontaneous. It was you know, we were just willing to try. I think it's easier on those occasions because Who knows if you might never see them again? So it's kinda I'd consider it man practice.

I love that man practice. So then how about the exploration? So you're talking to your partner, and you're like, this is really vulnerable for me. This is where I'm at. Then how do you get from talking about it to getting more consistent with having Sex or being sure that I don't is it true that I've read somewhere that you should schedule it? Put it on the calendar for, you know, and it takes a lot of the romance out of it. But I'm a planner, so I'm thinking that's not a bad idea. So I know that space for your brain.

Yes. You have to plan it because our lives are so busy. But, you know, go back to when you were first dating your partner. Did you not plan dates? Did you not plan what you were wearing? Did you not think maybe we're having sex today? I'm gonna shave my legs. So was it all spontaneous, or was there planning back there too?

That is such a great point.

Yes. We planned. We think it was all spontaneous. It's all been planned. So I think there's nothing wrong at all with planning because if you know Wednesday is the our day. You can start in the morning going, today's Wednesday. Oh, I'm gonna clear my calendar. I'm gonna clear my mind.

I'm gonna think about the last encounter. You think about an an encounter you had previously that brought you pleasure and joy, And you can reminisce about that and start getting your body warmed up for because that's what we have to do with women. If we think that we can go from dishes, Putting the kids to bed. Okay. It's time. I mean, I I think at that point, if that's happening, I think it's more just Tension relief. You know, you're just fucking to you want tension left out of your body. But if you want a little bromance, You know, maybe the dishes could wait.

You know, you don't have to have everything perfect. Maybe the kids don't need a bath that night. You know, you can take shortcuts.

I'm gonna back up just a little bit. How did you go from a massage therapist? Like, at what point did you say, I'm gonna be a massage therapist to a sex coach. Like, what happened to guide you to that point? And now that you're going to, you know, kind of Combine the 2 professions.

You know? I'm Transitioning right now to it. And I had mentioned to you earlier that I made I taught before COVID a couple's massage class, and it was the most phenomenal thing I would watch all the time. Couples come in, Either they were very on the same page or they were very disconnected, and it didn't matter because they're all leaving with a great experience, and I would watch it transform. I would help these couples get their needs met and Her to it was so much more than massage. It's about communicating and, you know, speaking and allowing yourself to, you know, direct them, what you need. It's really interesting. And then I put a a little component on it sexually. I threw in this time the penis and the vulva massage, and this is phenomenal.

This is Fire, another component. It can be foreplay. It can be relaxation. I mean, There's so many different components to all of it now, and I find it really enticing and neurotic for couples. So That's the next level I'm taking people to.

Oh, I love it. Well and physical touch is so important. It is so important for that Connection. I I found with my husband that Fire me to just feel safe and Here, regardless how stressed I am or anything, if I can just snuggle up next to him, lay next to him, and just having his presence is so amazing to me. It I've never experienced that before because I have never had that type of safety or intimacy with another of person. And it just it's so special when I'm like, I just need I just need to be near you. And I can imagine we just took a couple's yoga, of a partner yoga class last weekend, and it was so cool. And I'm assuming it's, like, probably, like, the lowest level.

Like, you're Teaching massage and touch and adding that sexual component up levels the connection that we Her doing couples yoga, but it was just really cool to use that strength and energy with each other to hold each other up and balance each The. And it was so awesome. So I think, If I'm hearing you correctly, really, it's important to just have that type of connection. You've gotta have that connection to have meaningful sexual relationship.

Right. Touch is relationship building. You know? What do you do? You hold hands. You touch the face. You know? You cuddle. These are things that build that intimacy and that vulnerability and the connection.

Perfect. So, Ann, tell us how my listeners can find you, and what type of programs do you offer? Do you work with individuals? Do you work with couples? I will put everything in the show notes. What would make you a good fit to work with?

Well, I'm very open minded. That's The, the compliment I received, and I learned very early on in my career not everybody has a safe space. So I provide a safe space for people. So I think that's really one of my strengths, is to be open and provide that space so you can have the conversation you need. My website is a confidential conversation.com. My offers are on there. You can work 1 on 1 with me. I do work with a lot of women.

I do work with some men, so Couples on occasion, but, that's where you can find me.

Oh, perfect. Well, thank you for sharing your wisdom. Thank you for being so candid and open. I greatly appreciate it. And I guess my last question is, how has this journey helped you become your most authentic self in your professional life, and how is that translated to you being authentically you?

I think it's taught me vulnerability, acceptance, open mindedness, and realizing that people don't have that safe space. And I knew what it was like for myself not to have a safe space to be myself, and I wanted to be able to provide that for others. And by providing for others, It edges me closer to my own all the time. You know, not everybody deserves to hear your story. So I Treasure that, and I honor that when people decide to share with The, and it's special.

It is. That is Such a beautiful way to say that and a good reminder for those listening that, yeah, you get to choose who hears your story. Her do you take care of yourself when it comes to you know, you take on a lot. You hold space for a lot of people. So what do you do? How do you make sure you're taken care of?

It changes as I grow as a person. But, You know, physically, I do a lot of somatic releasing. I do a lot of walking. I try to eat right, do all of those things, It's boundaries for me. It's learning better boundaries, and that happens over time. You know, even me, I have my issues. I have to learn. I'm growing.

I still fall into old habits and patterns, And then I'm like, whoops. This doesn't feel good. I get myself back up. Growth is not linear.

And you're human. And I think that's we forget when we march on this journey of self discovery and, you know, even this journey of being authentic. I there's potholes on the journey because we're human, and we're not perfect, and we're not robots.

I do try to walk my talk. I I wouldn't tell anybody something I haven't done myself, You know, because I think a lived experience is the best experience.

Amen to that. And on that note, I am so grateful for your wisdom, and thank you so much for sharing. As I said, I'll put everything in the show notes. It was lovely to have a conversation about sex with you.

Great. Thank you for having me, Diane. It was a pleasure.

Another Great Conversation. Thank you for giving the valuable gift of your time and listening to The Fire Inside Her podcast. Speaking of value. One of the most common potholes we fall into on the journey to authenticity is not recognizing our value. So I created a workbook. It's all about value. Head on over to the Fire inside Her slash value to get your free workbook that will help you remember your value. Until next time, my friend.