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Hello, friend. I am pretty excited because today is the 69th episode of The Fire Inside Her podcast. Diane you believe it? I'm still pinching myself at times to think that in just 15 months, I have created a podcast and have followers. And each week, you continue to listen and support this independent podcast. I am so grateful from the bottom of my Her, and I have a favor to ask. If you wouldn't mind picking out your favorite episode and sending it to 3 of your friends that you think would benefit from the message, I would really appreciate it. And then if you could like, follow, subscribe, and even leave a review, that would be fantastic. Your support is everything when it comes to growing this community.

And if you want a little bit more than the podcast, be sure to sign up for my twice a month newsletter at the Fire Inside her dot com list. Welcome to The Fire Inside Her, a brave space to share stories of navigating life transitions with authenticity, using our inner fire to light the way, and self care as our loyal travel companion. I'm your host, Diane Schroeder, and I'm so grateful you are here. Hello, fiery soul. I love to disrupt norms and traditions, challenge the status quo, and push boundaries. One of my biggest pet peeves is using the phrase, that's the way we've always done it, as a reason for not moving forward. I value creativity, innovation, and looking at life through a different lens, personally and professionally. And my guest today definitely disrupts how the fire service approaches mental health.

Let's be clear. Disruption isn't inherently good or bad. It's simply a break or interruption in the normal course or continuation of an activity process or whatever. Jess Ward, our guest today, has a journey rooted in the fire service starting as a teen. She's the driving force behind Athinka, a company that is revolutionizing mental health support for firefighters through innovative resilience programs. You will discover how her personal challenges ignited her ambitious projects, such as the groundbreaking Fire conference. This conference is not your typical fire service gathering. Jess has created a safe space for open discussions on the real issues affecting Fire' well-being.

Jess also gives a sneak peek into her newest venture, and I'm really excited about this. A virtual wellness portal aiming to boost Fire responder mental and emotional health preemptively. And even for my non fire service listeners, there are so much wisdom and nuggets about persistence, resilience, and disruption in this episode. Let's get started.

Jess, welcome. It's so nice to have you here.

Thank you. Thanks for having me today, Diane. I'm excited to chat.

Yes. Alright. So let's get started with The question. I would love to know where your favorite place to travel is.

Oh, gosh. You know, I've been to all the continents, so that's a really hard question. They're Fire having to choose between your children. I would I would have to say South Africa slightly edged out Antarctica. It was just so wild. The ghetto next to these really luxurious condos, there's just such contrast there that it's very otherworldly. And then you have, like, lions just roaming around. So South Africa, I think, was one of my favorite places just because it was so extreme, I'd have to say.

Okay. Then let's go back a little bit to being a business owner. So you just you founded your business as Athinka. And you work specifically with first responders in the world of first responders. Correct?

Firefighters, to be totally honest. I mean, I like cops and EMS, but my heart is in, you know, the fire service and always will be. So yes.

I appreciate that. So, you know, I understand that. Why is your heart with firefighters, and what is your BHAG, your big, hairy, audacious goal?

So why firefighters? Let's start with that. Our family I'm from west Western Pennsylvania. You know, my cousin founded the police department, and my other cousins were in the fire department. And I was a fat, chubby child when let's be honest, when I was 12. And so at that point, my parents suggested to me, they're Fire, they voluntold me to go help out at the fish fries because our cousins were in the fire service and that helped them raise money. That's how the fire department made money back in the early nineties in Western PA. And, I started at 12, and I was hanging out with the fire guys at 12. The roots, began to grow at that point.

And then when I was 16, you know, by The, I lived. I lived for frat Friday night, because I again, as the chubby little fat girl, I didn't have a lot of friends at school, and they were kind to me. I mean, yeah, they were kinda hazy and, you know, how firefighters are and vulgar and but they enjoyed my piss and vinegar that I brought to them every Friday night. And that just you know, when I was 16, the chief jokingly was like, hey. Why don't you join the department? And it was completely a joke. Like, he did not mean for me to sign up. And I was like, oh my god. Yeah.

I'd love to join. And thus began, you know, then when I really got a taste of riding backwards in The fire truck, man, I think I felt alive for the first time in my Fire. Because I was a high achiever, and the things that I got to do as a 16 year old volunteer firefighter in Western Pennsylvania just blew everything else out of my life. So I I got a taste for the adrenaline. I got a taste for the altruism of it, of helping people, of just becoming immortal. Like I, I tell people I touched immortality and, you know, The a lot has happened between my 16 year old self and my 42 year old self. You know, I've lived a lot of life. I mean, I took a big step back after 8 years, you know, I I left it and I went through a dark night of the soul and was like, who am I now? Who am I without the fire service? Which I know you understand, and just redefining that identity.

And then, I think, again, the things that are authentic about you The you're meant to reconnect with, you circle back around to. It's funny, this is a common theme of my Fire. I have I have totally said to people and things, fuck you. I'm so over this. And then years later, come back as a better version of myself, more prepared and ready to reproach. And this is now what I am doing because during, you know, this dark night, I developed a resiliency program that was totally built on firefighting analogies. Like, I have a stop, drop, and roll maneuver. I have the ladder climb.

And it's funny. As a business owner, I started this on civilians, and they're like, what's with the fire analogies? And I'm like, just roll with it. Just pretend. But and then I finally realized, I was like, I built this for firefighters, you know? And so now I'm finally you know, now that I have the courage to, like, come back and and I see the need in the fire service for mental health, but mental health in a way that's really about personal growth, self care, mental fitness, you know, a preventative approach, it's all kind of come full circle and come back together. And I don't think I would have been able to do it without leaving, right, without going and learning new skills, without doing it on my own and then coming back. So, yeah. So that's the big hairy vision is I'm gonna transform the fire service. I really think that some element of, I don't know, I've been calling it stoicism lately, that's been coming up in my, in a lot of my interviews I've been having with people, but stoicism training, and I really think that's the last piece the fire service needs right now to get over the identity crisis they're having with the attrition rates and stress and the suicide rates and all of these problems is because there's zero mindset training happening, you know, 0 cognitive training happening.

And with that piece, then firefighters get to feel Fire gods and goddesses again. It's that, like, archetypal. You can really step back into that archetypal performance that I think draws so many of us to it. And when we get a taste of it, it's totally addictive. So yeah. So that's the big audacious goal in a big that's a big answer there.

Thank you for sharing. I I wanna go back and unpack a little bit of your story. Can you imagine now at 16 joining the fire service?

You mean if I was 16 right now, would I?

Well, if you knew a 16 year old, would you be like, yeah. You should go volunteer for the fire service, or do you think that's too young? And it's no judgment. I have more reasoning behind my question.

Okay. Leading me into something. I think it takes a certain personality. They say wounded healers are attracted to, you know, healing professions. I think there's something deep inside of people that attracts them to the fire service. I've heard multiple different answers of why, but I think if you have that in you, yeah, then I would totally recommend for a 16 year old to go for it. It's trial by fire. It's like, wow.

You're in, and you're living life.

It is. You know, I I have a similar way I was introduced to the fire service. My dad was a volunteer firefighter, and so I grew up in the firehouse too. And so how have you approached this radical concept of mind fitness and kind of preloading what to expect in the fire service?

I've had to shift my, terminology because, really, this idea, like I said, it's the theme of cognitive fitness, of emotional intelligence, it lands differently. It depends on where you're talking about it. You know this. You know, like, I my previous brand was Emotional Fire Academy, and that flew Fire The that did not it sank. It did not fly because it had the word emotional in it. And so I'm learning that when you approach a particular audience who has a particular lingo, you really have to be mindful about delivering it to them in ways that are slightly novel, but familiar. Right? You're playing this game with them where it's just interesting enough, but it's not scary. It's culturally relevant.

I play this game constantly where depends on who I'm talking to. Emotional mastery could also be manifestation. Like, the manifestation community talks about a lot of these same things, but, oh, that was way too woo, you know, for fire service. So that has been literally how our approach is really dictated by language. Like, language is so key to your success, to everyone's success.

Well, absolutely. And I love The. And it's a trick that I learned a few years ago when I started presenting on, you know, those kind of taboo, woo woo topics. And in fact, last week, I was in Texas, and a good friend of mine, we presented on culture in the fire service. And we did not once say diversity. We did not say inclusion. We did not say any of those buzzwords that tend to shut people down. And yet The feedback was really we were surprised.

We were like, oh, who's gonna wanna come to hear about culture and the currency of your culture in your organization? And it was such a pleasant surprise. And it was intentional to leave all those words out because we didn't want to shut people down. And it's interesting that you've seen the same challenges in what you say, because it's the exact same thing. You're just leaving out some keywords.

Yes. I mean, self command. That's what I've been calling it, self command, because that that sounds, powerful, authoritative, you know, self command, but it's same thing, yeah, with DEI and, you know, all these things that have kind of, I think, been shoved Diane our throat. Resilience, which it's funny, they're all the same thing, but a different word opens the door for people. So, The, If that's what we gotta do, I'm fine with that. I'm like, alright. I can call it a different word. We can that's fine.

As long as you're open to digesting it better than you would have otherwise. So yeah.

So how have you taken all of your experience from traveling all over the world and just your different roles in life to come back to the fire service, how do you leverage that with promoting the preloading for the mental capacity and really strengthening that on the front end?

So what I've had to do again is it doesn't matter where I've been the last 10 years. You know, that now on paper is like, I have 10 years of experience putting this resilience, you know, training together, but I've, again, had The chameleon back into firefighter mode. You know, like, that really is how I have approached this because there's such an in group, out group, with firefighters, you know, that I am 1, and I speak again, I use language. I talk about myself. I am one of you. And I expect sometimes a little kickback of, like, well, you when did you leave? I mean, I did when I was interviewing for speakers for the conference, I I actually was like, does it matter? 8 years didn't qualify enough for you? I was like, does it matter? 8 years didn't qualify enough for you? Like, I but that's okay. I mean, that stuff happens when you're in the firehouse too. You know? People kinda square off sometimes of, you know, who's got more authority and rank, but I had to become again.

I had to remember that version of myself and step back into her and revive her and have more fun with her and speak of myself as her again, which has been nice. And because I've remembered in doing that, it's kind of like it took me back to being a teenager again, because that those were the formative years of the of, like and having the balls to do stuff that I wouldn't have otherwise done. Like, you know, I was a relative unknown, and I just was like, I'm just gonna have a conference and being able to do The, it came from claiming her again. My teenage Firefighter, ballsy, life flowing self of just like, here I am. What are you gonna do about it, boys? Kind of playful. So so, yeah, I had to kinda reclaim her and leverage Her, but with the wisdom of, like, the woman behind her of, like, I I have now the experience. She is the showman, she's the front woman, but behind her is the the mature, you know, holding it together, emotional expert kind of, you know, pulling the strings, if that makes sense.

No. That is absolutely beautiful. I feel like if more of us first, the damn ego. Right? Ego gets in the way of so many things and creates so many problems, especially in the fire service. And I think it's unfortunate that there's still this competition over collaboration and kinda catty mean girl behavior. I hope it gets better. I always hope that. I'm always a big fan of, you know, all boats rise.

Let's just support each other and lift each other up. And that reconnection with your inner child is just such a gift. And not just for being bold, but just in general. I think there's a lot of, like, that woundedness of our childhood that we gotta make peace The. And to use that to move it forward. That's absolutely beautiful. It's gorgeous. And speaking of your conference, I loved it.

I thought it was so great. I've been to tons of fire conferences. I've presented at a lot of conferences. They're all the same. They're not very innovative. But to put everyone in the same room and to have that energy and that connection and to really just focus on one topic, it is bold. It was bold, and I think it was great. It was it was very lovely to Her you did that.

So where did you come up with the idea of that style of conference?

Thank you. I I just wanna to let those words land for a second. I'm not good at receiving compliments, So thank you very much. I really appreciate that feedback. I did it out of spite, to be honest. I you know, revenge is one of my best motivators in life. I have done the most amazing things because I was like, watch me go do this myself. And I actually left a nonprofit earlier this year, and we had been planning a huge conference.

I mean, I was I was ready to go. You know, one of my, visions was trying to get Imagine Dragons to show up at this conference. So I was, like, I was starting to show up in this big way for this nonprofit, and, like, I had all these great ideas Diane and then the whole thing got canned. I was like, you know, this happened for a reason. And I actually it was only about a month later after the project got canned The I said, you know, I think I'm gonna go do this for myself. And so, because I had already kind of learned and prepared, and I had the momentum of, like, I'm having a big event this year, and, you know, I kind of took that learning that I did with The, and I literally just was like, Her. Good luck, guys. You know? Nope.

And we peacefully parted, And then I literally, like, came out of the door running. You know? I immediately just went to the venue and I I'd used the same checklist that I had and just kept going and just did it because I knew I already had, like I said, that juice and the emotion behind it of, like, I'm so disappointed that you guys dropped the ball that I'm just gonna use that because I I know myself and that is, like I said, one of the biggest motivators for me of why I do things. And I know that maybe that sounds a little petty, but I feel things really deeply. And when I can tap into that, I will, I'll climb a mountain. And I did, I did. I pulled it off, which I still look back and like, wow, that's, it was crazy and intense and fun. And thank you for coming. It was a pleasure to have you, and it was just a great experience.

So.

It was. And I love The knowing the backstory to it because so many things, especially as being a business owner. And I've learned this over the last 9 months. I retired, and I was like, alright.

I'm gonna do this, this, and this.

And I was like, good. I need, like, 6 months to just heal my body and learn how to sleep and learn how to, like, acclimate into, you know, being a business owner. But I think it's what I've learned, it's the consistency. It's taking those steps. It's taking those big leaps and just going for it, not worrying about, you know, all the other things, which I'm sure you did worry about all the other things, but not letting that stop you from forward progress. And all the details were covered. I mean, it was great. There was nothing that was left unturned, and there was such a personal touch.

What I thought about when I left that day was a blue ocean. So you created a blue ocean in conferences and especially in the fire service, and that's great because that just means next year, it's gonna get even bigger.

Yeah. We'll see. I'm gonna have a team next time. I've definitely learned, teamwork makes The dream work. So but thank you. Yes. Thank you. I appreciate that.

So right now, I am behind the scenes building a virtual wellness portal. This is, again, a blue ocean. I have one known competitor. I went undercover and checked out their wellness app. They're a pretty big competitor, so it was interesting because, you know, I don't have any fear going up against well established businesses on this, but I use it to redefine who I am and to ask myself, what does preventative wellness look like? If I was doing an encapsulate preventative wellness in a virtual space, what does that look like? When I talk to other people, like, they have no idea, and I have no idea. And so it's been coming to me piece by piece. I've been making a lot of collaborations in the community of a little mix of live events, a mix of human connection, opportunities for human connection that firefighters would normally get, like, right, they have they can go to the station, they can hang out with friends after work, and then they have peer support. But what's beyond that? You know, there's mentorship.

There's maybe connecting with different groups they've not had a chance to Fire older people or people with a disability, just like having a human connection with someone, having a profoundly positive experience outside of work counteracts a profoundly negative experience that you have at work. And I was like, so how do I create I I drew from my tour guide experience because, my business started actually as a tour business. I gave tours in LoDo. And so I I drew from that, and I was like, how do I create these incredibly interesting, profoundly positive experiences for firefighters in this space. That's like my secret sauce right now. And so I am like completely turning all of these concepts on their head in a preventative way because prevention should be fun. We're not gonna use it. We're not gonna do it if it's not fun, if it's not engaging, if it's not useful.

Right? And so I have this kind of creative leeway to just create this portal and fill it with a bunch of interesting experimental stuff that, yeah, I'm gonna unleash on the world in a few months and see what happens. And, like, alright, guys, what do you and curls, what do you think of this? Like, try it out. And so there's a lot of pieces going into it right now, and it's just kind of like a stew that I just keep adding ingredients to. And yeah. So we plan hopefully by mid spring, to have it ready to go. It'll be like nothing else. It's gonna shake some trees, so I'm excited to shake some trees.

Oh, that's perfect. Well, I'm excited, and I will link all of your information and where people can find you of my listeners that are in the fire service. And I think I have a few. To me, what comes up is that curiosity over judgment. You know? I'm curious. I'm interested. I I would love to know The. You know? What else is out there? Because trying to find the holy grail of how to support Firefighter, and it it's so much more than just peer support after a call or so much more than a call because we're also humans, and life life gets messy sometimes.

So it's The, what can you do to create that cushion, the safety net? Like, when I hear you describe what you're creating, that's what I hear is, that's the safety net. And you never know how many people you're going to extend their careers or entice people into The profession, or I'm really excited to see how this grows.

Thank you. I am too. Like I said, it's this, like, bubbling pot of stuff right now, and I'm not I don't even know. I'm like, how is this all gonna turn out? And I'm kind of excited to see it just coming into existence, and it's a bunch of random ideas that have popped into my Her. And then how it how this little, you know, piece by piece. It's like that song by Johnny Cash that Her builds the car 1 piece at a time, and then how it runs. Like, let's see how it runs. Let's get her out and stretch her legs and get some feedback.

And, again, the we've talked about now when you have a little bit of a space from the fire service, you have more of that leeway to be more authentic. Right? You're not confined by the expectations and the bureaucracy and all of the things that kinda hold us back. Like, I could have never done this if I was actually associated with the department because it would have been their reputation on the line. So I'm prepared to, you know, for a little bit of eyebrow raising at first, but I think it's gonna open the door for others to be a lot more creative with their mental health solutions, with personal growth, with talking about things like stoicism and, you know, bringing philosophy into it and just all of these areas that we could draw up on to make the fire service even better.

When I hear your story, I hear this journey, the authenticity of where you started. It's a messy journey. Let's be honest. But now really kinda getting back to that who you are and your authentic self, and that's a beautiful thing. And thank you for sharing that part of your story. So what do you do as we get ready to wrap up this lovely conversation? How do you take care of yourself? Because you're working real hard, and you're doing a lot. So what do you do for your mental health and to preload for you and make sure that you have that cushion to continue moving forward?

I look at my mental health and my states of being as a field of, terracotta warriors, right? We've all seen the terracotta warriors. And to me, you know, one of the biggest things or concepts that's helped me with where I'm at and my ability to achieve is remembering that I'm not linear. I'm this field of potentials, right, of and each of these terracotta versions is a different version of me. It's happy Jess. It's overwhelmed Jess. It's Jess on an adventure. It's angry Jess and they're all available to me all the time. The more and more I've reinforced this belief and practiced it where I can literally The second be overwhelmed crying, how am I gonna do this? I remember that, and I'm like, okay.

I'm gonna step into my, this is an adventure. I got this. I can literally phase shift in between these versions. That's one thing with I have really practiced as self care is not seeing myself as linear anymore. That has allowed me to jump into bigger versions of myself even momentarily, you know, even if it's just to make a decision, and then I'm like, I couldn't hold it that long. Like but I was there long enough to make the decision, and then I just keep going. So if that makes sense, that that's really one of the most potent things that I do for myself to stay focused and stay moving forward and stay doing big stuff and just chasing the vision.

The is a gorgeous answer. Thank you for sharing that so much. And thank you for sharing your time and wisdom, your story. And, really, I cannot wait to see where this goes, because I agree with you. I think it's gonna be big. I love it. It's fantastic. And I just wish you all the best of luck, and I can't wait to have a front row seat to it.

Thank you. Thanks for having me today, Diane. It was a pleasure.

Another great conversation. Thank you for giving the valuable gift of your time and listening to The Fire Inside Her podcast. Speaking of value, one of the most common potholes we fall into on the journey to authenticity is not recognizing our value. So I created a workbook. It's all about value. Head on over to the Fire inside her dot com slash value, to get your free workbook that will help you remember your value. Until next time, my friend.